Bollard/Samson Post?

[True Story]

Was hoping I could get some input from some of you seasoned mariners.

I will be installing a Horizon 600 G windlass soon and it appears the factory cleat location not only influences the mounting location of the windlass but is not very handy when tieing off the anchor rode while on the hook should one choose to do this.

I found a bollard on the West Marine site by searching for bollard. Sorry I can't attach the link but it's eight inches high and is made of stainless steel. I like the idea of brass but can't find one on the net.

Was thinking about installing the bollard several inches aft of the factory cleat location and a backing plate would be in order. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Thanks, Tim

[Alyssa Jean]

Hi Tim, I don't think the factory installed cleat is in the way. I have the 400 sprint installed and it is well forward of the cleat. The windlass is actually installed to the port of center so that the anchor line/chain comes back straight from the bow roller.

[Sea Wolf]

True Story

Sounds like you're on the right track!

While many, perhaps most, folks don't ever take the load off the windlass as the manufacturer recommends, anchoring in very windy, and particularly choppy situations would seem to demand that one be equipped to tie off the rode to take the load off the windlass.

You're absolutely right that the tieing point or at least a turning block must be in line with the bow roller fitting, and there's usually not enough room in between the windlass and the bow roller to do it there.

So, our reasoning goes, the only reasonable choice is to mount a Sampson Post in line behind the windlass. This is the simplest solution. Do this installation last, however, after installing the windlass and a new bow roller ( if necessary).

You'll need to determine if the Sampson Post will be tall enough to allow the rode to clear over the top of the windlass. It might be necessary to install it on a block or use a larger one. Assuming you're using mostly rope, the clearance should be enough to avoid serious scuffing damage to the rode as well as cosmetic damage to the windlass.

Be sure the Sampson Post is large enough in diameter and has long enough "ears" to cleat the recommended 1/2" three strand line to. Some of the rope brands are very stiff and might be a problem on too small a post.

Another thought is to add a short piece of 3/8" 'snubber' line up front to take some of the shock off the bow roller and windlass. You can do this in addition to or without the Sampson Post addition.

A snatch block, shackle, or carbiner is placed over the anchor rode and a line led down through the trailer bow eye to absorb some of the shock so it isn't all placed on the bow roller and windlass. Dead end the additional line to the trailer bow eye, run it out to the snatch block or other fitting and back to the same bow eye then up to the deck for tie off and adjusting. The smaller, stretchy line will save a lot of stress on the bow roller and windlass. Additionally, will beneficially lower the anchor rode angle a bit.

I'm sure there are other options, of course, but, as always, the KISS Principle is the best guide and I think you're definitely on the right track!

HTH Joe.

[dogon dory]

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

[True Story]

Dogon, you make a good point about the torque Dory and I appreciate the rest of your responses.

The samson post does look way nauticool but it would be nice if it's not necessary.

I'll take Joe's advice and start at the bow and work backwards to see how everything fits together before I get carried away. Thanks.

Tim

[Sneaks]

Tim, I have the Horizon Sprint 600 and even without the tilting bow roller I have more than enough room to comfortably use the present cleat. In fact, with that roller, as you can see I could have moved the windlass forward a little more without any problem. The clearance is hard to see below due to perspective but it's about 1 1/2"

[Sea Wolf]

Sneaks-

Nice looking installation Don! Looks very professional with the white calking border accenting the windlass/deck boundary. I've always liked the "vertical" style windlasses like your Simpson-Lawrence Sprint 600 for their clean simple look and the way they hide the motor under the deck.

What True Story is going to install is a Simpson Lawrence Horizon 600 windlass which is a "horizontal" style windlass with the motor above deck in a rounded top rectangular box and the gypsy turned 90 degrees compared to yours. It's a much bigger package above deck, and fits just as though you took your windlass and installed it on its side above deck and built a box over it.

How far back it has to go depends on which anchor one uses (really anchor shaft length), and which bow roller is fitted up front. On these installations it is often very difficult to predict exactly what will fit where, as even a change in the swivel fitting (length) can affect what happens. One might even try to copy another set up and find the anchor shaft length different between manufacturers or within a manufacturer's model changes.

I guess well all just have to wait and see how the planned installation goes step by step! Joe.

[Sneaks]

Thanks for the complement, Joe, yah, I knew what he was installing but had hopes he'd reconsider the choice. BTW, I have 300 ft. of genuine Simpson/Lawrence rode with 15 ft. chain and it just barely fits the chain locker. When it needs replacement, if I last that long, I'll probably get the 250 ft. combo which gains a little more "breathing room".

Actually, the pivoting roller C-Dory installed gave me lots of room to play. As you can see from the photo, when my Bruce clone is fully raised, the anchor tip is at least 4" away from the bow and that means an additional 4 more inches between swivel and gypsy. Plenty of room between the swivel and gypsy, so I think the Horizon could also scoot forward another inch or so if he did the same.

The standard roller (and the pivoting one on the rearmost pivot) puts the bruce tip perilously close to chipping the gel coat while retracting/retracted, IMHO. I hate chipping Gel coats.

[B~C]

I have the Powerwinch 450 which is physically larger than the Horizon. When I installed it I had to trim about a 1/2" off of the cleat so it would still be functionable. Sea3PO has a nifty little WestMarine gadget that locks the line down and mounts between the bow roller and the windlass...tis slick.....you're going to love that windlass, handy durn things for fishing

[TyBoo]

Tim -

Your 600G is going to fit just fine, and you will be able to use the cleat behind it, although you'll find the need to use it will be rare. Even if you want to position the windlass back farther for more room between the gypsy and the anchor shank (you'll want a swivel in there), the front lug of the factory cleat can be cut off a bit. It should be stainless, so you can polish it up good as new and it will stay that way.

The 22 Cruiser JudyBlueEyes has the same windlass, and I do not believe I had to cut the cleat to get it all on. Your best approach would be to install the new pivoting bow roller (trust me on this one - you want it) first, and then set the windlass on the deck to get an idea of where it needs to go. If you can leave the cleat as is, more the better. If not, whack the front of the thing off so you'll have room to pass the rope between it and the windlass. You can get a good lash up without using the front leg of the cleat, anyway, by just passing a loop under the cleat center and over the rear leg a couple times. Furthermore, I see no problem with taking the rope either over the top or around the side of the windlass to tie off.

You're getting a good windlass there, my friend. I am on my second one, and have had zero problems with either. Be sure and spend the extra hundred bucks or so to get the S/L branded rode. Works flawlessly.

[B~C]

I think this was the gadget that Joel had...looks like it just works for chain though http://www.boatersworld.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&productId=13140055&topCategory=249085&cat1=290519&cat2=342030

[Sea Wolf]

Don-

Thanks for the reply!

I too have a vertical windlass, a Quick Aires 500. I also have a Bollard/Sampson Post, although I was able to mount the windlass, a big anchor (Fortress FX-16), and rode in such a way as to preserve enough room to use the centerline cleat. I like to use the back of the regular cleat to change the direction of the pull, then route the rode over to the Bollard for cleating, but I can use either one or both in combination as described.

I found I like 100 feet of chain in the front of my rode as it eliminates all chances of slipping in the gypsy and actually holds the boat down a lot better here in Shasta Lake with it's steep sides. When I only have chain out, I usually don't use either cleat and just let the gypsy do the holding. This works great as the lake winds and chop are usually light, but if need be, the combined 250 feet of chain and rope can be cleated properly to anchor as needed.

Two photos of this set up are available here:

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_albumName=SeaWolf&id=IM001285&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Fun Subject! Joe.

[True Story]

Thanks once again for all of your responses. Sneaks install of the below deck Sprint does look attractive and negates any concern I have regarding the cleat, but Tyboo has me solidly turned in the opposite direction with the 600 G. 10-4 on the pivoting bow roller and Simpson Lawrence rode Mike.

Found the rode online at Performance Yacht Systems. Three hundred feet with chain for $230. Yowsers, their proud of that stuff but sounds like it will fit in the locker and thats what I'm interested in.

I can't wait for March to roll around so I can try the windlass out in the River for Springers Ken. Last year I thought I wanted to be like the river sled dudes and went with the buoy, anchor puller and quick disconnect when fish on but..... the C-Dory is not a open bow sled. This year I'll follow your original advice... stay out of the hoglines and let anyone know that moves in beside me that I'm not budging.

Tim