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ABYC Propane Standards
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Larry H



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: ABYC Propane Standards Reply with quote












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Larry H

A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Ranger Tug 27 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2017 - 2022
Puget Trawler 37 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2006-2017
1991 22' Cruiser, 'Nancy H'--1991-2006
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journey on



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you're looking for a comment, here's a couple.

First, it says that each appliance shall be serviced by a separate low pressure supply line from the locker to the appliance. Next, that the line shall be a continuous length starting from the regulator, shut off valve, or leak detector. Also, you have to have a shut off valve which can be operated from near the (each) appliance.

I guess this means that you can't manifold off a single regulator/shut off valve/ leak detector. I would guess that a dedicated shut off valve with a switch near the appliance would make the most sense (to me, at least.)

Also, Appendix A shows why we use propane. Less heat per gallon, but butane freezes a 32 deg F (as does water) and propane at -44 deg F. So I don't have to worry about that propane tank sitting outside freezing, just blowing up. And it does vent in the summer.

Boris
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Larry H



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boris,

My propane system has a single switch to shut off the solenoid valve. The valve is located in the locker, after the regulator, and before a tee and two single-length hoses which go from there out of the locker. One goes to the propane stove and the other to the propane heater. The switch is above and to one side of the stove and within 4 feet of the heater. (My boat is not a C-Dory).

Since the switch is in the same compartment as both the stove and heater, I consider it adequate. The switch plate has a red LED pilot light which is visible from most of the cabin. I am diligent in ensuring that the appliance not in use is off before lighting the other.

If the two appliances are in different compartments, then two solenoid valves and switches, each controlling one hose would be proper.

Remember these regs are not laws, and are not enforced by the USCG for pleasure boats. The USCG could cite someone for an obviously unsafe installation, but the only enforcement I see likely is a surveyor or insurance company, who might require ABYC compliance.
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journey on



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good to me. I was only commenting on my interpretation of the ABYC regulations, of which there were some questions in a separate topic.

Boris
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SEA3PO



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry...Thanks for posting this.... I have been checking, and you are right....my solenoid is in the wrong place...even the surveyor did not notice... it is on the low pressure side of the regulator....

Last night I found a proper designed system for multiple outlets... it starts from the tank then the solenoid....then has a "T" to two ball type on off valves followed by a regulator and then line.... so it has two regulators in the system...one for each line....two manual valves...and one solenoid..... all inside the propane locker...each with a watert tight thru hull for each line...

I now have some re-plumbing to do...but it will be right...

Joel
SEA3PO
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tomherrick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, what Joel said...

Thanks for posting this, Larry. I'm still in the thick of figuring out my 'new' boat systems and this helps fill in some blanks and corroborate some other sources of info.

T
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SEA3PO



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I really have a problem...... I followed the directions that came with the stove exactally.....and installed the solenoid on the high pressure side of the regulator... just like in the drawing that came with the heater...
It has a diagram of how to hook up two lines, ONLY PROBLEM IS NO MARINE CATALOG SELLS A HIGH PRESSURE SOLENOID VALVE...and it sure will not work using my existing low pressure valve...I tried that...

From the tank...I have the feed line to the solenoid valve then the pressure gauge then it has a "T" to two regulators, then ball valves and then separate lines through separate thru-hulls... just as they have it pictured.... if I just could find a high pressure 12 volt solenoid valve..

Ideas ?

Thanks

Joel
SEA3PO
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rogerbum



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SEA3PO wrote:
Now I really have a problem...... I followed the directions that came with the stove exactally.....and installed the solenoid on the high pressure side of the regulator... just like in the drawing that came with the heater...
It has a diagram of how to hook up two lines, ONLY PROBLEM IS NO MARINE CATALOG SELLS A HIGH PRESSURE SOLENOID VALVE...and it sure will not work using my existing low pressure valve...I tried that...

From the tank...I have the feed line to the solenoid valve then the pressure gauge then it has a "T" to two regulators, then ball valves and then separate lines through separate thru-hulls... just as they have it pictured.... if I just could find a high pressure 12 volt solenoid valve..

Ideas ?

Thanks

Joel
SEA3PO


There's got to be some industrial suppliers that make 12V high pressure solenoid valves in brass or stainless.

Here's one link (pricey) to a valve good to 1000psi. Mc Master Carr might carry something that would work. I've found all kinds of useful things from them.

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TyBoo



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you try the Google?? I found a few of 'em.

Here's a dandy for $55.



Or you can go down to your local Hyster wrecking yard.

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SEA3PO



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sort of pressure does the propane tank have ? The high side ?

I was thinking it was about 300 lb pressure

Joel
SEA3PO
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Larry H



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel,

My leak down valve shows between 80 and 120 lbs pressure on the high pressure side of the regulator.

I think propane systems are rated to operate under 300lbs.

Pressure can vary with the blend of propane and the ambient temperature.
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rogerbum



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a table of the approximate propane pressure as a function of temperature assuming there's some liquid in the tank and 20% or more head space. Given that propane tanks should never be filled above 80% this is a reasonable estimate of pressure. However, in the rare event that the tank is completely filled with liquid (which is both stupid and illegal but which could happen), the relevant pressure is that of the liquid. This can get quite high but will be limited by the safety release valve. Those valves are designed to fully open at a pressure between 360 and 480psi. The tanks themselves are designed to withstand >960psi but the expected working pressure is much lower. If it were me, I'd probably go with a valve that was designed to withstand around 1000psi -e.g. I'd use a similar design criteria as the tank. That provides a more than adequate safety factor.

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Larry H



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger,

Excellent find, I belatedly noticed that there are two pressure specs at the end of the table on the last page of the ABYC regs which go along with your table.
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SEA3PO



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to check the system....and because I could not stand it...I bypassed the solenoid valve...and hooked up the remainder of the system....and it works super.... the heater is real nice... it is a hot day today so I will wait until tonight...and take Susan out with wine and cheese...to the boat in the driveway...so we can enjoy our fireplace/heater....

What a joy having heat in the boat...

Joel
SEA3PO
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SEA3PO



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still a bit miffed that Trident Marine (the makers of my switch) and West Marine don't sell high pressure solenoid valves.....

What do other boaters do when they have multiple propane appliances ? put a low pressure switch on each line ?

Joel
SEA3PO
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