New Suzuki outboards?

[Matt Gurnsey]

I'm not sure where the genius is in selling a product at or below cost, with the business model being "let somebody else take care of it". And let somebody else tell the buyer that the manufacturer isn't going to cover a repair under warranty because of how the motor was purchased.

Best Price, Best Quality, Best Service- you can only have two out of three. If price is King, then you have to choose to sacrifce quality or service. Once you make that choice, it isn't somebody else's responsibility to fix any problem you may have.

It's easy to post low prices online. Then order product form the factory when the order comes in. Presto, no flooring costs, no storage costs, no showroom to maintain. No waterfront business location for demo rides and sea trials.

So your solution is to have dealers who invest money in having what you want to see in stock sell them at cost, and then have factory trained guys using factory authorized parts doing any work at cost as well.

Did your hear about the Genmar bankruptcy? Boat builders and dealers going out of business? Or other issues facing this industry? Or the added governmental regulation being placed on businesses? How about the nearly $100,000 in filtration systems that are going to be forced upon marine businesses on Puget Sound that no one knows if the will do what they are being promoted to do, but are going to be required just the same. Just because it makes some very vocal people feel better, even though there is no science to back up their demands.

When did profit become a dirty word? There was a time in the country where success was cheered! Building a business was rewarded and encouraged! Now it seems all anyone wants to do is tear businesses and succesful people down. They're evil, greedy, uncaring.

Bah! What a downer this turned into.

[Matt Gurnsey]

[ramos]

I have never worked in the boat business but I have worked for John Deere and Case IH dealers for a number of years. My experience with warranty work is that you get reimbursed at zero margin for parts and almost always write off a fair portion of the labor. Don't get me wrong, I think warranties are good and people deserve them. I miss my warranty on our boat! I'm just pointing out that other than trying to measure the value of good will (and it is real), warranty work ends up as an expense for dealerships. I took a class with some people from the recreational marine industry and it sounded like they had it even tougher with their suppliers.

[Matt Gurnsey]

Okay-

I talked with my Suzuki Rep.

Any Suzuki dealer can ship any motor up to 25 horsepower. The dealer agreement forbids it above that horsepower. What's that mean on a big engine? Unless (IF) you can convince your local dealer to do the pre delivery inspection on the motor you bought online, the motor will not be registered with Suzuki, and there will be no warranty coverage.

Why these rules?- so Suzuki can be sure that the motor you have on your boat was commissioned by a trained Suzuki dealer, and that everything is installed and working properly. It is to protect Suzuki owners and help ensure that the ownership experience is the best it can be for Suzuki buyers.

On another note-

Suzuki builds all their own engines, from 2.5 to 300 HP. Period. They don't have engines built by anybody else, and they don't build engines for others.

As far as service- dealers don't have a problem with engines purchased from other (legitimate) dealers, especially Boat / Motor packages, and will welcome your service business. We don't expect to get every sale, but we want to compete on a level playing field.

[Wefings]

You all missed my point . We service everything that comes in the door . Its prioritized by folks that do business with us and are not pure price shoppers . We can even beat those deals sometimes . It dosent have to come out of our shop for us to work on it .I think there are a bunch of C Brats that will attest to that .What you see on the internet isnt always true as evidenced today by a fellow that brought me a printout from those very folks advertising a motor that they dont even have .
But I must say Matt was far more diplomatic than I was after a 20 hour day packing up a boatshow . Didnt mean to make it ugly. And Mike, you will get instant service anytime !
Marc

[Papillon]

Matt said:
I'm not sure where the genius is in selling a product at or below cost, with the business model being "let somebody else take care of it". And let somebody else tell the buyer that the manufacturer isn't going to cover a repair under warranty because of how the motor was purchased.

Mike Answered:
I doubt that they are selling below cost. They may just be selling below your cost. And if they are an authorized dealer then I think the manufacturer is going to be hard pressed to back away from their responsibility. After all it was one of their authorized dealers. I also don't think they are shipping the larger engines in the first place. I was speaking to the 25 and below motors.

Best Price, Best Quality, Best Service- you can only have two out of three. If price is King, then you have to choose to sacrifice quality or service. Once you make that choice, it isn't somebody else's responsibility to fix any problem you may have.

As a consumer I am looking for all of the above but in a much different order then you propose. I want Quality, Service and Best Price. I don’t see why I have to sacrifice any of those.

It's easy to post low prices online. Then order product form the factory when the order comes in. Presto, no flooring costs, no storage costs, no showroom to maintain. No waterfront business location for demo rides and sea trials.

I believe I should be able to go to any dealer and find posted prices for what they are offering for sale. Because of the increase in waterfront values, there are very few dealers located on the water anymore. I for one , do not need to go for a demo ride or a sea trial of a outboard motor. And if I am purchasing a boat then it isn’t a problem meeting at the ramp. As to floor plans, storage, showroom…the dealers here don’t have anything special..and they sure don’t stock the full line of outboards…you place your order and wait. As it is today, the motor will be in before they get your C-Dory off the line.

So your solution is to have dealers who invest money in having what you want to see in stock sell them at cost, and then have factory trained guys using factory authorized parts doing any work at cost as well.

Nope, that is not my solution at all….I want them to make a profit and have a very successful business by doing what they do. I just am not going to be a great customer. I will buy my motor, learn to care for it as much as I can. And when it quits running one day and I can’t figure it out, I will find a dealer/service center that wants my business.

Did your hear about the Genmar bankruptcy? Boat builders and dealers going out of business? Or other issues facing this industry? Or the added governmental regulation being placed on businesses? How about the nearly $100,000 in filtration systems that are going to be forced upon marine businesses on Puget Sound that no one knows if the will do what they are being promoted to do, but are going to be required just the same. Just because it makes some very vocal people feel better, even though there is no science to back up their demands.

I can’t speak to your local issues anymore then you could speak to mine. Your on the Left Coast and I am on the Right Coast.

When did profit become a dirty word? There was a time in the country where success was cheered! Building a business was rewarded and encouraged! Now it seems all anyone wants to do is tear businesses and successful people down.

Profit has not become a dirty word with me. I pay retail plus everywhere I go , just to make sure that the business is there the next time I need something. I never use a coupon, or discount card at the grocery or the drug store. I have never in my life had a warranty claim on any product I have bought. I have returned items for replacement when they failed to work right out of the box. If my Nissan 8hp motor had not worked, I would have shipped it right back to Cookeville, TN. And asked for another one.

They're evil, greedy, uncaring. No Comment

Bah! What a downer this turned into.
_________________
Matt Gurnsey

[Matt Gurnsey]

Marc, I recognized that your tongue was deep in your cheek, but it may have slurred your speech.

Our 20 hour days start this weekend.

[helm]

I'm not sure the consumer is really to blame here. Much of the responsibility lies with the manufacturers and their pricing structure. OEM builders get one price , high volume dealers get another price and your local dealer who may be low volume pays the most for the motors and has to try to be competitive, but the deck is already stacked against him. As long as there is opacity in the pricing structure it works but these days its not to hard to figure out what people are paying for product but lets not blame the buyer, put the blame where it belongs which is on the manufacturer and their tiered pricing structures which puts smaller dealers who are working hard every day to do the right thing by their customers at a disadvantage.

Eric

[Wefings]

Nicely put Eric . The wallmart mentality will be the demise of local business and great customer service .
Marc

[Byrdman]

Interesting chat going on here.
Marc: Hope the Atlanta show went well.
Matt: Good luck at your show.
Mike: Sorry we could not hook up during our run thru FL.
Rob: Hope your motor is back up to par...heard about it.
Eric: I vote for you in setting one price for all and let service and customer care and good business practices sort out who stays in the game.

Just a casual observation while reading and enjoying a nice cup of coffee this morning after a couple of nights good rest in my own bed...before typing. Hi Tom!

I do not think there is enough profit in motor sales 25hp and below to keep a business going.. and, my bet, there are simply not that many sold in a business year that stock the kinds of boats we enjoy....

So, why can not the authorized dealerships, with the certified trained mechanics, just purchase the "below our cost" motors from the same on line vendors rather than tying up their floor plan dollars and paying that interest on "dead" inventory, then have their certified trained mechanics prep the motor, install it "properly" to include sealants around the transom thru bolts if mounted on a transom, charge a 5-10% mark up on the "on-line" purchase (which is said to be below our cost)...which would get the motor back up to the "our cost" level..... and charge what ever his shop rate is for those certified technicians..... and BINGO. We have a great price, we have a dealership not tying up funds on dead inventory...and making a 5-10% profit on the motor he did not inventory(not that much money on a 25hp and below), the consumer...yes, those of us who pull the cash out..... gets a new motor, a good fair price, support our "local" dealer... and life is good.

Could be some manufactures "rules of engagement" that dictates you "must order one of everything" or "must order so many HP a year" or order so many units a year... Now those are the limits put on small business that shut them down. That is part of the reason EQ stopped working with Scot Reynolds is they did not need to or want to stock "dead" inventory of the 16', the 19' C-Dory boats.. Now, these are very nice boats and I love them both...but, they can be ordered when needed without tying up dealership floor plan funds. Wow, and just think of the Tom Lathum 29... Yep, I bet dealerships were lining up to keep about 3 or 4 of those on their inventory.

Now, for me and my boats, it is more about who ever is doing what ever work being true quality work that I do not have to stand behind to be sure they are doing the work, being on time, not breaking more than they fix on the boat, not holding my boat for days/weeks/months... and getting me back out on the water. I pay what is needed for that work...and, like Mike, I enjoy doing some of the simple on going maintenance work myself. No need loosing boating days....but at some point, things over my comfort level will need to be done, and I bring her in. Even then, I liked it better when my motor man's shop (the local guy) had a very small service area and he would say be here at this time and we would appreciate it if you could just wait around for your boat. Now, that was great service and I could stand around and watch which was and is cool. And, I like the follow on phone call from a real person asking if all went well after I got back on the water. My brother brought his boat to this shop, and they could not contact him directly on his cell phone (he does not answer his home phone line either...as folks who know us use our cell phones)...so, he called me and asked for his cell phone number to make that follow up call. Sweet...and not some automated web based email driven message....a real person that speaks english and truly cares about our, and their business. Interesting, this shop has enjoyed two of his best years in business the last two years. You gotta love it.
Time for more coffee.

[JamesTXSD]

This is a tough situation. When there were plenty of buyers, a dealer didn't have to worry about making every sale. Not so, these days. It's not about breaking records or having the best year ever... it's about survival of the business. Balancing the cost of doing business isn't just a matter of pricing; payroll has to be met. It's hard to provide that "good service" if the business can't afford to pay the mechanic. Service has to pay its own way.

While consumers are looking for the "best deal", the dealers can't sell "at or near cost" and stay in business.

"Free Shipping"?? Free to whom? When we used to ship product, the Post Office, UPS, and FedEx always charged me the going rate. You can build it into your price structure, but it isn't free. Every service or product provided by a dealer has to be paid for somewhere along the way. Sadly, loyalty seems to be going the way of general civility. An adversarial approach isn't good for the dealer or the customer. It's not (or shouldn't be) about the dealer trying to squeeze every last dime out of an unassuming buyer - it's about the dealer and the buyer working together to get the customer what he wants, whether it's a motor, a boat, or service. And the dealer has to do this in a way that they can remain profitable... or they won't be there to provide the next product or service.

We need our good dealers. When I see posts about "who has the cheapest price on...", it concerns me. Boat stuff isn't the same as Wal-Mart. It's also not the same as going to a car dealer. But, like Patrick, if a dealer tells me "put the boat over there and we'll get to it in a couple weeks," they certainly won't get my business. I get my local service done at a small boat manufacturer who gets me in and out. "Local" these days means I have to haul the boat about 40 miles. They used to have a second shop less than a mile from our house. A sign of the times.

To lighten this up... years ago, I used to do business with an "outlaw" motorcycle shop whose motto was: "We cheat the other guy and pass the savings along to you."

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Matt Gurnsey]

[quote="Papillon"]
Mike Answered:


Profit has not become a dirty word with me. I pay retail plus everywhere I go , just to make sure that the business is there the next time I need something. I never use a coupon, or discount card at the grocery or the drug store. I have never in my life had a warranty claim on any product I have bought. I have returned items for replacement when they failed to work right out of the box. If my Nissan 8hp motor had not worked, I would have shipped it right back to Cookeville, TN. And asked for another one.


_________________


How can you say you spend retail plus- and then claim to have bought a motor from these guys at a (supposed) discount?

Anyone may buy whatever from whomever, but the question, as originally asked, was about buying a 115 HP Suzuki from this dealer, and the possible ramifications of doing so.

The answer is that Suzuki will not warranty engines that have not been pre delivered by an authorized dealer. Period.

[Papillon]

Matt..you got me there. I plead guilty. I must have had a moment of weakness. I purchased from an outfit that posted their prices...I never got a price out of the local Nissan dealer...but I was promised a call back after he did some checking.

I went online to do a little research on other sources and these guys from the Vol State rose to the top of my google search. I clicked on two spots...read...clicked on add to cart and was unpacking my motor 3 days later.

I bought the oil local...paid retail I am sure...no sorry...purchased it at ...you guessed it....Discount Auto.

Your missing my point in that price is not king with me...but hassle free upfront pricing carries more weight as long as the price stays in the ball park...and does not go into left field. I shopped at Wal-Mart too, so I guess Everyday Low Prices is not considered retail anymore.

The prices I paid for the 8 hp were retail in Tenn. that day.

[Byrdman]

Maybe I should just stick to "Hi Tom"... but, things are for sure different now in any business than they were 2-3 years ago even. My intent, was to find a "newer" way of doing business today for the smaller motors where the end cash paying consumer, the local or not so local dealer with the paid certified technicians can stay employed and in business, the factory backs the motor warrantee due to it being set up and put into service by a certified tech...and folks sort of Co-Op if you will on the small motors. You know...sort of like how the farmers did way back when CO-OP started up...prior to TSC and the others.... They shared the cost of getting goods sent to a "central spot" and they went there to get their goods. You know, I went to college in Cookville, TN, have a nephew living there now, is where I owned my first home, is where I attempted to convince my Mom that "John's" was a local credit union where I cashed my checks and not some honky-tonk, thus not graduating from college that go round, ....so, I may look this place up on line and see if I can find a hard address and just see what is there... or... it may be a couple of college students with a web site operating out of the dorm rooms to pay for their beer money.....well... the ones who are over the legal drinking age of 21 now. Man, I am glad they passed that law so no college students under 21 drink beer anymore.

[Cutty Sark]

Interesting thread. I am considering buying two motors right now, a 6hp tohatsu or nissan and the 2.5 suzuki. And have been looking at the website mentioned and also saw the suzuki on cabela's for $699 I believe . And yes price is important for me with limited boat bucks, I' will spend a bit more $ to buy local but not if the difference is substantial. I don't expect problems with any new motor I buy(I've bought 3 new ones in the past 5 years, none of them had problems), but if I did have them, I'm sure there are plenty of local dealers who will take my outboard in and not put me to the back of the line just because it wasn't purchased there. As a consumer I would consider that poor customer service and would choose to take my business somewhere else if I knew that type of thing was going on. I would hope the dealer would have enough foresight to realize a customer who comes in for service and leaves happy, can end up a becoming a customer and buying a new boat down the road. But my experience is far, far from the boating industry, so maybe it doesn't work like in does in my line of work. I went to a local dealer here in kenmore the other day and they definitly looked like they could use some business( I bought some various parts). And I'm gald he is there,though I wish the motor's he sold were not so much more than I can find them online for, as I would support him. But the difference is substantial. And I 'm sure the hourly service charge is the same whether I buy it from him or not.

My dad has a saying that" in business you need to reinvent yourself every couple of years, because times change, markets change and if you do not change you fall behind. Or as Ben Franklin said "when you're done changing youre done"(just saw that one on a billboard the other day). I don't see why some of the local dealerships couldn't do the same thing. Obviously there is a demand for that type of service(outboard web sales), rather than get upset at the way things are. I would personally try to see if it could fit in my own business model and be profitable. Or don't.... but don't expect me the consumer to pay more for the same product because of the local dealer's business decisions, when the same product is available for much less, It's not my job to make sure they are profitable any more than it is my customers job to make sure I am.

Being a sales manager myself, I guess I just don't see the logic in these arguments personally, but we all have different philosophies. My job is to provide the best value, service, and product I can. Value (or price)is a big part of that for many consumers. These online vendors are just targeting that certain market, and are having sucess. I do not see how we can fault them for that. I'm sure they have families to feed as well, just like any of us.

Sark