Something Electrical Messed Up Again...

Pat Anderson

There is 110 volt power to the boat, the outlets work and all, but the Guest 10 amp battery charger is not on (lights not on) and the batteries have apparently gone dead (12 volt lights don't come on). I have not turned any switches or breakers off, we keep a little 12 volt 80 milliamp computer fan running on the Airhead all the time and count on the battery charger to keep the batteries up. Is there a fuse or breaker I should go looking for as the cause of this problem, or any ideas at all? Got me scratching my head...Thanks!

journey on · Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject:

Pat, the original battery charger is connected to 110 VAC through the AC control panel. Have you checked that to see if something hasn't tripped? It's under the table. Also, when I got rid of my Guest 10 amp charger, I noticed that there were 1 ea fuse on each battery on the charger line, right at the battery. Those are 12 VDC automotive type. You'd better check those, also.

If you need another 10 amp charger, I think I've still got the original charger which came on Journey On, sitting on a shelf. However, if'n I was you, I'd get a good charger and run some heavier wires to each battery from the charger.

Those batteries are 5 years old. Those on Journey On are still good, but you might check.

Boris

cemiii · Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject:

Those little $3 multi-meters from Harbor Freight are worth their weight in gold when it comes to tracking down voltage/battery/alternator problems. I keep one in every battery carrying doohickey I have.

If you have 110v at the charger plug but then nothing after it, the charger would be my guess for at least one of your problems.

Chris

toyman · Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject:

On Fan-C-Dory, an '06 model, the breaker for the charger is the bottom breaker in the panel - the one with a handle on it. Mine needs a screw driver, big finger nail, pocket knife or ?? to operate it.

JamesTXSD · Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject:

Sounds to me like the Guest charger has died. Ours did that within a few months of picking up the new boat. When I called Guest to do some trouble-shooting, they told me: no light when power is running to the charger, it's dead. No user-serviceable innards.

The fuses between the charger and the battery shouldn't make any difference in the charger showing it has power.

It's not tough to replace, but I think there are better onboard chargers; something with more amps to the batteries would be my choice next time.

When our Guest died, it allowed the batteries to get really discharged. They all needed to be replaced, as well.

Good luck getting it worked out.

Best wishes,
Jim

Sea Angel · Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject:

Pat;
The battery charger ac ckt breaker is the next one below the "double"
barred "main" breaker on the panel below the table. I, too, have a 2005,
CD25.

I'm sure you have checked this,, but try checking the physical movement
of it. It can easily be damaged with someone's heel or foot. The back side
of the panel is easily accessible by removing the drawer and seat so you
can check for power to the charger thru the breaker; and, its output
voltage.

If you have input power and no output, than the info you got from the
tech support says it all.

If you don't have a guard in front of the panel, now may a good time to
add one. If you look on Sea Angel's Upgrades, you will find one
inexpensive approach to this.

Art

Alyssa Jean · Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

Here is the upgrade protection that I did for my 25 and Pat's.

Alyssa Jean · Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject:

I just went out and checked my Guest. The green light is on on the unit itself. The indicator light on the electrical panel is on but diminished from the others.

To check the voltage of each of the three batteries do they need to be disconnected from the wiring or can they be checked with wiring on and all systems off and no load? These are AGM batteries that were installed when the boat was built.

cemiii · Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject:

You should be able to check the battery voltage on an individual battery that is it's own separate bank not under load without disconnecting. Any batteries that are connected parallel would show equalized voltage if tested without disconnecting. To check those individually it would be necessary to disconnect the positive connections at one end and let them settle out for maybe an hour. This, of course, with the charger disconnected. Good idea to let them all settle after turning off the charger prior to the voltage check.

That is my understanding.

Pat Anderson · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject:

Well, went to Cabelas yesterday, looking for something I didn't find, but that's beside the point of this post!

I did find a Guest 10/10 20 amp Model 16202 Marine Battery Charger for $150. Looks like it might have been a return, it was not in a plastic bag and the box was not sealed, but heck, I saved the receipt and enjoy going to Cabelas anyway if it doesn't work out!

This guy has cables coming out the bottom instead of terminals to connect wires to, and the AC has a three prong plug. If I had noticed that in the store, I might not have bought it, but here I am with it back home.

My plan is to remove the hot water heater (never use it anyway) to get access to the charger mounting location. Any tips on what I need to pay attention to in removing the water heater?

Then for starters, I am going to leave the plug on it in case I need to return it and plug it into the outlet next to the power panel. Eventually, I will shorten that cable, strip the wires and wire it directly into the 120 v power - I am assuming the cord will have black hot, white neutral and green ground wires and I can just put ring terminals on them.

But my question of the day is about wire size running back to the batteries. Will the existing wires from the dead Guest 5/5 be adequate for the 10/10, or do I need to bump the wire gauge up? To what? The run is hot water cabinet in port side aft of cabin on a 25 to batteries under the motor well. The gauge of the wires on the cables of the new Guest is no larger, but the cables are set up for a bit shorter run - they are only a little over 5' long. I suppose I could mount the charger under the motor well and run a longer AC cable but I really don't want to do that, just doesn't seem prudent!

Anyway, any advice would be much appreciated!

cemiii · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject:

The rule is generally that bigger is always better (as far as electrical wire at least) but your current wire will likely be ok, just not as fast of charge as a larger gauge would provide. I think what I would attempt to do is measure the voltage output of the charger at the battery end of the wire run with a meter while the battery is discharged a bit, if it was less than 13.2 I'd consider increasing the wire size. I defer here to those more knowlegeable.

Here is a site that I like that lets you calculate voltage drops over distance with varying power and loads. Based on my read of the charts I would not want to be less than 10 gauge for a 15' run.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Chris

cemiii · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject:

Better yet, I don't think you want to see a voltage drop greater than 3% from output to business end. In measuring drop, it would be important to know what the charger is putting out initially if it has a scaling trickle feature.

cemiii · Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject:

http://www.batterystuff.com/manuals/manual-GU16202.pdf

If you don't have the manual in the opened box

Sea Angel · Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject:

Pat;
I think you can remove the seat above the heater by lifting it out of place,
pull the drawer out and have enough access to do the wiring you need to
do. I have worked back there withou any problems in the past. It can
save a bunch of *****'s/time and plumbing issues.

If you do remove the water heater, you may have to drain all the water
from your system so there won't be a mess in the cabin. This will give a
safety factor, too. Removal of the water heater will gain another 115VAC
circuit for other use and some added storage.

Turn the MAIN POWER - OFF, be sure and be careful to disconnect the
115VAC wires from the heater and either put caps on the ends till you
reinstall the heater or remove the wires from the breaker.

Either way, you should turn OFF the MAIN breaker and you should be able
to wire the charger directly to the circuit breaker marked "CHARGER" on
the AC Power Panel. The wiring diagram on page 67 of the "Owner's
Manual, 25' C-Dory Cruiser"; 'C-DORY 25 WIRING DIAGRAM PAGE 3', is
the same for the 2005 model which we both have.

Art

Pat Anderson · Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject:

I keep hearing about this alleged "Owner's Manual"! We bought directly from the factory, and all we got was a three ring binder that contained the manuals for all the components...[I just checked the Documents section, and as of 9/05 Jeff Messmer provided PDFs of manuals for the 16, 19 and 22, but said the manual for the 25 "was still being worked on." There is no CD25 manual uploaded as a PDF to any subsequent post. Anybody who has one care to make a PDF and upload?