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Doryman
Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807 City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
Photos: Lori Ann
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: Electric shock drowning |
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Here is an article from Boat/US on the subject that has been circulating lately. Good stuff to know.
Warren _________________ Doryman
M/V Lori Ann
TomCat 255, Hull #55, 150 Yamahas
Anacortes, WA
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Matt Gurnsey Dealer
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 Posts: 1532 City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
Photos: Kitsap Marina
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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I have huge respect for people who take tragedy, and turn it into something positive, as opposed to lloking for someone to blame, or to use thier tragedy for a huge payday.
That being said, I now have a scientific reason not to go in the water. Much better than "It's too cold".
Let's be careful out there. _________________ Matt Gurnsey
Kitsap Marina
www.kitsapmarina.com
360-895-2193
(888) 293-7991 |
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Valkyrie
Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 1028 City/Region: Loudonville
State or Province: OH
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Valkyrie II
Photos: Valkyrie
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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There was a case of this on Lake Erie about 15 years ago. A trawler was anchored in Put-in-Bay, South Bass Island and the owner dropped his wallet overboard. He offered a nearby teenager $20 if he could retrieve it for him. The kid dove down and when he touched the boat on the way up got hit by an electrical current, unknown to onlookers, and subsequently drowned.
Lawsuits were filled, but I never heard of the outcome. What a tragedy.
Nick
"Valkyrie" |
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005 Posts: 2154 City/Region: Denver
State or Province: CO
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: C-Cakes
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Warren,
Thanks for posting this. _________________ Patti and Barry
formerly C-Cakes, now
rving around N. America |
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Mike...
Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Posts: 470
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: Accelerando
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. What a sad story - but it is heartening to hear what the father (and the ABYC) has done to protect other lives.
So, can anyone point me to info on how to install one of these? I did a quick google search and could not find any specific instructions.
---
mike |
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ramos
Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 243 City/Region: WASCO
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2009
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Squirt
Photos: C-Squirt
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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My five year old son spent his first birthday in ICU at Legacy Emmanual Hospital (and the following week) in Portland, Or. after a heart operation. Stories like this send a chill up my spine. I do not know what it is like to lose a child but, I have a better idea than I would like to have. We no longer keep a boat in a marina since we now have a 16C and enjoy it's portability. It surprises me that in our litigious world that marinas do not regularly check for "stray current". If they did and found any, all they would have to do is unplug the offending vessel and notify them that they would not be provided with electricity until the problem was corrected. A simple solution to protect marinas, boat owners and save lives. This is from a guy that believes we need fewer regulations instead of more. Keep in mind that this particular story has struck a chord with me and I may not be totally obective on this. _________________ Jon Ramos
2009 16C
50 EFI Honda
C-Squirt |
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: |
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What's more amazing to me is that all marinas are not required to have GFI's installed on every source of power. Given that the electrical code in (nearly?) every state requires GFI's for any outlet near water in residential wiring, it's amazing that a similar requirement doesn't exist for wiring at marinas.
I also found it interesting that once the marina installed GFI's they had problems with people trying to bypass the GFI's due to them constantly tripping. That plus the other evidence in the article (testing of multiple boats), indicates that the problem is wide spread. Hence if all marina's installed GFI's a lot of people would lose shore power until the wiring on their boats was corrected. I would see this as a good thing but it sure would be a double hit for the marina - first the cost of the install and then dealing with all the upset customers. Nonetheless, in my mind, this is a case where some regulation is required. At the bare minimum, any fresh water marina should have GFI protection on every source of power. _________________ Roger on Meant to be |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:16 am Post subject: |
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It is amazing how many marinas, and boats are misswired, which allow full current flow into the water through the "ground" circuit. We use a test light or volt meter to test marinas when we plug in, but it is difficult to check the boat next to you.
On the other side of the "coin", the story was the John Wayne had a coupld of Boston Whalers stolen from "Wild Goose" his converted mine sweeper when anchored in Acapulco. Susposedly he wired the hand railing on the whaler to the hot lead of his genset and the neutral into the water near by....no more stolen whalers... I have to assume that this was only used at night, and not when children might have been swiming.
The loss of a child would be almost impossible a grief to bear. I agree that marinas should be required to have GFI circuits and test regularly. Plus the private boat owner should check out his boat on a regular basis. You cannot assume that it is correctly done. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
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It would seem to me that it would be easy to check out the water around your boat in a marina with a digital voltmeter, a metal rod with an insulated handle, and a few wires.
Simply attach one lead of the volt meter to the ground wire of the hot wire of the AC circuit, and the other to the metal rod, and read the voltage. (Being sure to NOT make yourself part of the circuit!)
(One would have to establish beforehand by testing the AC circuit, that the voltage was within the normal range, the ground circuit solid and good, and the neutral wire insulated from the ground.)
Any significant voltage present would be an indication to stay out of the water.
One might argue that no one should ever be swimming around a boat in a marina, but bottom cleaning, prop replacement, skeg and shaft work on inboards, marina repair, and many other needs dictate that some folks will be going into those waters.
It might be nice to set up a permanent testing arrangement, understanding that the electrode should only be put into the water for testing (to avoid permanent corrosion), and that the ground wire should not be attached to the ground circuit for safety's sake, least it provide a dangerous ground source should a charge be introduced into the water between testings.
I'll be testing the marina waters around by two boats at Shasta Lake soon!
Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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marvin4239
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 Posts: 1165 City/Region: Jacksonville Florida/Wilmington NC
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-FLE II
Photos: C-FLE II
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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This is a sad story but like someone said the father really went to great lengths to get the codes changed to protect others. Without putting much thought into it it seems like some sort of a grid affair could be installed and create a voltage alarm system at marinas. Maybe something to think about for the inventive types out there. _________________ marvin |
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marvin4239
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 Posts: 1165 City/Region: Jacksonville Florida/Wilmington NC
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-FLE II
Photos: C-FLE II
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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You know come to think of it I wonder why they don't use isolation transformers at Marinas? I've installed these system in explosive environments the systems aren't grounded so you have no relationship to ground between the hot lead and ground. |
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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marvin4239 wrote: | You know come to think of it I wonder why they don't use isolation transformers at Marinas? I've installed these system in explosive environments the systems aren't grounded so you have no relationship to ground between the hot lead and ground. |
Even with isolation transformers, I think one side might be brought to ground when a boat hooks up to the system. Then with another boat wired backwards, the other side might be hooked to ground with current flowing between the two boats and across the space between them (e.g. the fresh water in the marina). I think GFI's and proper grounding are the best solution. |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Agree with Roger, the isolation transformers may not "solve the problem"--because of miswired boats.
The silver chloride electrode is the best way to check the water potential. It is usually used for DC current "leaks" but works as well for AC. Anyone who maintains a boat full time in the water should have a silver chloride electrode for their digital voltmeter. |
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BrentB
Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 4419 City/Region: Greenwood
State or Province: IN
Photos: BrentB
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thataway Bob
I have a Fluke DVM but no reference electrode. What are you using?
thanks _________________ Brent Barrett |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Brent, I pruchased my reference electrode from West Marine a while back. (West no longer carries them) You can find them on the internet. This is a specific extra item. I have several DVM's, and the banana plug on the electrode will fit most of them--definately most Flukes. |
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