Water in the Bilge

[Mike...]

Hello everyone.

I posted another thread about a mold problem that developed in my TomCat. In dealing with that I discovered what may be another problem, which is perhaps related to the mold.

It really seemed unusually damp in the TomCat, so after getting rid of the mold, I went looking for the source of the dampness. I found a few things:

The berth cushions were soaked, likely from a leaky hatch.

Everything stowed under the galley was damp, though not wet. Before I purchased the boat there was a leak in the shower hoses that supposedly was fixed. Regardless, the system has not been under pressure since, and I think the items would have dried by now (it has been several months).

The fish boxes were 3/4 full of rain water, as is to be expected, unfortunately. I pumped those out as well.

Most interesting, the port bilge pump spontaneously (and with spooky timing) pumped out about 10 gallons of water yesterday. Today, I pumped another 20 to 30 gallons with the port pump. There was nothing to pump out starboard.

By the way, I noticed what appeared to be debris in the bilge. It almost looked like a pile of oatmeal. I didn't have gloves with me, and didn't really want to stick my hand into it without them. Besides, it was starting to rain again, so I buttoned it up for the day.

Anyway, I am surprised about all that water in the bilge. I am fairly certain there was none when we got the boat home. If I am right about that, the rain water must be getting in there somehow, or maybe the water storage tank is leaking?

All suggestions appreciated.

---
mike

[thataway]

As I have noted, my 2006 Tom Cat had the hatch cut out too large. I assume that they used a template, and that there is a good chance than there are a significant number of hatch cut outs which are too large. My dealer's technician explained the water on the bunk away by commenting that the hatch must have been open when they washed the boat!

I had to remove the hatch, then use glass, epoxy and filler to make the hatch cutout appropiate size and seal the core of the deck. Somewhat similar experience in the C Dory 25. Secondly, the sealant was not properly applied in both boats. So first I would pull the hatch and see how it is seated, and then rebed it properly.

The fish boxes leak--peroid. Not much to do about that. Even with the full camper canvas, I get water in my fish boxes. The lazarette lockers also leak around the gaskets and the aft seat may also leak around its gasket--this could account for water in the bilge. If the hull to deck joint is not fully sealed (and I suspect it may not be), then water can get into the bilge through the rub rail, where the rivets are placed to temporally hold the hull to deck until it is glassed (and I suspect in some places is not properly glassed).
Th
There is a known problem with the shower fitting. The fixtures use a British Standard thread, instead of American Standard pipe thread. There is a slightly different pitch, and they do not match, even though at a quick glance they appear to be compatable. To "solve" this problem, someone justed "Bostic" sealand on the threads. As long as there is a mismatch or use of the 'Bostic" there can be a leak. Always turn off the pressure water.

In my boat, the shower drain was not hooked up. I suspect that it may have been disconnected, since the shower did not drain thru the sump pump. The sump pump motor was improperly wired, so it did not work. So you need to check the hose from the shower to the sump (drain accessed through the cockpit foreward stb side inspection plate). Look at the entire drain--mine also had a low place, so it would not drain by gravity, until I made it have a proper slope. You need at least 1/8" per foot slope toward the sump--better 1/4" per foot. Check all of the fittings, including the sink drain, the sink hot and cold water, and the water heater fittings, looking for leaks.

Another place to look is via thru hull deck fittings: This could be water fill, the head pump out and two fuel tanks, plus two fuel tank vents. Also cleats if not properly bedded and sealed, will allow water to leak into the boat. Same for railings, swim ladder railings, etc. Also behind the head, there may be some area where the boat hull to deck joint was not properly sealed.

Crud in the bilge. All fiberglass boats seem to have this problem (unless you build the boat, and remove every speck of fiberglass dust and wood dust and debris.) We had one large boat which still was getting debris in teh bilge after 3 years of hard sailing (30,000 miles)--and where the entire bilge had been pressure washed to attempt to dislodge any amounts of dust or debris. You can try and wash this out.

If the water tank is leaking (some boats have the tank on port side, others Stb side), you will see less water in the tank.

It is unlikely that water is coming in through the anchor locker or drains, in the Tom Cat. Same for windlass, cleats etc. But don't completely discount this area. Also there can be leaks about the thru hulls for the various drains, the stove, and the raw washdown intake.

Also in the main cabin, there can be leaks from the anchor light, hand rails, and any antennas or fittings which you put on the boat for electronics.

I do keep a dehumidifier and air conditioner to prevent mold and high humidity, but don't have any water in the boat.

[matt_unique]

As Bob said the fish boxes leak period. There are ways to fix it, but I think most of us live with it and store things in there that can get wet without consequence.

After a hard week of rain I will have some water in the bilge, usually starboard side since Tomcat's typically have a slight starboard list with the water tank. My starboard bilge pump will run for maybe 8-10 seconds and that's it. I too have wondered how any water is getting into the bilge.

Bob - I don't seem to have the problem with hatch leakage, any other places you have fixed based on a known water leakage? I know it could come from anything bolted through the skin, but I was curious if you found a specific problem area.

Thanks

--Matt

[localboy]

I obviously can't comment on the Tomcat, but I can comment that the bilge in our 25 is CONSTANTLY filling with water. I have to go out at least weekly and turn on the bilge pump; with our consistant rains up here it's an on-going battle already. I assume it's from the cockpit hatches which don't seem to seal against the rubber seals. They seem to be "bowed" slightly and the starboard catch is mis-adjusted. It's not a problem during the summer months, but now that fall is here...

[katkt]

As far as other places to look,


I'm not sure what the rode locker on the TC255 looks like, but on our 24, the drain was not at a low point, and the inside of the rode locker was not properly finished. If rain or water from the rode got in the locker, water would leak out of there, and into the sponsons.
It was aggravating trying to figure out how the water got in the sponsons.
The factory had done a so so job of finishing off the forward bulkhead on the birth side, but the inside of the locker was left unfinished. The bottom of the forward bulkhead, met at the same place the floor meets the hull. With water in the locker, it'd drain under the bulkhead, beneath the floor of the birth, and into the sponson.
I filled and faired the bottom of the locker, so the drain became the low point, and I haven't had any issues since.

[helm]

The leaky cockpit hatches in the CD-25 are my single complaint about the boat. We have tried new gasket material, the tweak the hatch fix ala Sea Skipper, all to no avail. Our solution now is to just leave the camperback up all the time and if possible store the boat indoors if we are not using it.

There may still yet be hope - I emailed Scott Boysen about the problem and he wrote me right back - saying they are aware of the problem and were working on a fix that might be able to retrofitted into the old boats -I sure hope they can.

Eric

[thataway]

The only way to seal the cockpit deck lockers on the 25 is to replace them with commercial grade aluminum hatches. These are not exactly the same size, so some fabrication would be necessary to the cockpit floor. Of course another option is to keep a slant back cockpit cover, or camper back up all of the time. The plastic hatches have been backed with strong backs, but the older ones will still leak.

One other potential bilge water area leak in the Tom Cat is the side lockers in the cockpit. I don't know if mine leak or not, but potentially they could if not well sealed.

Matt, the only other leak I have found, is the all around steaming light on the cabin top. I believe that you know about that one from our prior correspondance.

[Mike...]

Thanks all for the replies.

I plan to get out there with a hose this weekend and see if I can figure this out.

---
mike

[matt_unique]

[thataway]

The "normal" way that the anchor locker is fitted in the Tom Cat, is that the anchor locker in the middle, drains thru holes drilled in the lateral walls of the central anchor locker, to the smaller lockers on each side, where it is susposed to drain out of the lockers thru the side of the hull, via another hole, one on each side. (over the foreward part of each hull). Unfortuantely this is not a very good plan, since it renders all three lockers across the front of the bunk not usable. In my boat, one side didn't any hole to the outside. The holes to the side lockers were high enough that it was rare that any water every got into the side lockers.

Our solution is to cut a single drain hole in the bottom of the middle locker--and glass off the two side lockers, so they become useful.

We didn't have any leakage into the hulls foreward. But if someone drilled a hole in a wrong place, or didn't put in adequate glass, that could happen as in Matt's boat.

[matt_unique]

If I'm not mistaken, Bad Boy also fixed his anchor locker in the same way (single hole in center of anchor locker covered with clam shell). He might have pictures as well.

I have yet to do that on Napoleon. It's clearly the best fix, but I have not used the forward lockers for storage as of yet. There is so much storage room on the Tomcat it has not come up!