Epoxy barrier coats?

[onefam]

We bought a 5-year-old C-Dory that has never had bottom paint. We intend to keep the boat in the water. Posters here advocate a chemical wash to rid hull of any waxy coating left from the molds, multiple barrier coats of epoxy paint, and a couple coats of bottom paint. (Most of these boats are in warm places -- FL, TX, So. Cal.)

Talking to local boat yards around northwest WA, I get different and conflicting advice. All say no wax is likely to be on the hull after 5 years of use. Most say the epoxy barrier coats are not necessary and almost no one up here does it; only one said he’d put 2 coats of epoxy on if he were doing the job. SeaSport (C-Dory) says they have no idea, no opinion. Any advice appreciated.

First time posting so I hope I haven't screwed anything up.

[Ananda]

I'm in the same boat (so to speak). I'll be interested to hear what info people can offer about this.

[Casey]

I just went through this decision process a few weeks ago. We recently purchased a 2006 Cape Cruiser that never had bottompaint. Since much of our boating at this point will be in warmer water, and hopefully for periods exceeding a month I thought bottompaint was necessary this time.

The question was whether to spend the extra money (several hundred dollars) for barrier epoxy beneath the bottompaint.

I asked various folks (and a few C-Brat's) their opinion, and got responses on both sides of the question. Some mentioned that since most newer boats were made with vinylester resin that reduces the blistering possibility. Some others thought a barrier coat might be a good idea if the boat was left in the water for long periods. All seemed to agree there was no down-side to a barrier coat other than the cost/work involved.

Since the issue was something that needed to be decided before the bottompaint was applied, I opted to do the barrier coat as well. Doing a barrier coat later would be impractical.

Another minor issue I considered was that the CC23 has no warranty coverage due to the whole Cape Cruiser/C-Dory flap. That was another small factor in rationalizing my expensive decision.

Good luck with your decision!

Best,
Casey

[BRAZO]

We applied a barrier coat to our CD22 last year. We used Interlux's Fiberglass Prep Wash 202 to remove the wax - not that expensive and very easy to apply. Basically, you put on the hull with one rag and remove with another rag (change out rags frequently). We also purchased some dewaxer from a local auto body shop that was much cheaper.

We then applied 4 coats of very thick (it was around 40 degrees during applying) of Interlux InterProtect 3000 Epoxy Primer. We used the 3000 version in order to be able to apply the barrier coat in colder temps. Also, we like the "white" version of the bottom coat.

Best part of the barrier coat - we spent many nights in the North Channel sitting on rocks and the barrier coat protected the bottom.

We did all the work ourselves and had no problems with the epoxy holding or any other issue.

[ffheap]

Hi Folks,

This is a good topic.

I have a 1983 Angler Classic. A few years ago, I added a 75 HP Yamaha Four Stroke engine, and had to raise the water line 3" at the stern. At Just above the water line the gel coat is getting a bit rough. I thought of putting a clear epoxy coat on the bottom and up to the first chine. I am thinking that it would stop any water reaching the core.

I would first strip off all the bottom paint.

I would then add a few coats of the new bottom paint.

Any ideas.

Fred

[Alok]

1. There is no information on this site (that I am aware of) indicating whether a 5 year-old C-Dory was laid with polyester or vinylester resin. Even with newer boats, it is my impression that the smaller models do not have any vinylester. Vinylester is more blister resistant than polyester.

2. Even with the Tomcat (which has a vinylester layer on the outside), Jeff Mesmer, who was at C-Dory when I bought my Tomcat, recommended putting on epoxy if the boat was going to be kept in the water full-time. I respect Jeff's opinion. For a polyester hull, there is no question that an epoxy barrier coat should be put on before the bottom paint is applied.

3. There is a ton of discussion on this site on the issue- search for
bottom paint/epoxy/vinyester/blisters.

[thataway]

Agree, that if you go to the trouble of putting on bottom paint, you need to put on barrier coat. In S. Calif--all be it slightly warmer than the PNW--as many boats as in Florida got blistering.

Once bottom paint is on, it is very difficult to get it off to get a good epoxy bond. You will have to do alot of sanding or a peel--not recommended on any C Dory.

I just pruchased a "new" boat, and it now has 5 coats of epoxy barrier coat. Good insurance.

[Matt Gurnsey]

With the various brands of boats we have handled new, we have never applied a barrier coat before bottom painting a hull on a new boat, and have had no blistering problems.

There are many on this site who are passionate about the need for barrier coating and would probably never have us do the work because we don't recomend it.

If someone wants it, we will gladly apply it, and charge accordingly. But the reality is, in the Pacific NW, in over 20 years of doing this, we have never seen the need for barrier coating.

Other climates, or fresh water areas may be different.

Keep in mind- It is not practical to barrier coat after the fact, so if there is any doubt in your mind, do it. But when the majority of the yards you talk to don't recomend it, even though they could make more money off the job, I think that may be the most telling advice.

If it were my boat, in these waters- I'd save my money and go with no barrier coat.

BTW- we wipe down with acetone, before and after sanding the hull to remove wax build up. The sanding is to rough up the gel coat to get good adhesion of the paint.

Interlux makes a primer that requires no sanding, just wax removal, although we've found it just as easy and cost efficient to sand the hull.

[JamesTXSD]

Good to get a local perspective from a PNW guy, Matt. We had no problem with the bottom when we have cruised up there, for a couple months at a time. Of course, that may be because the water is so freakin' cold!

Keep in mind that the Brats are a traveling, cruising bunch... and may haul their boat south to the warmth. Or to fresh water. We put epoxy barrier coats on Wild Blue. As Dr. Bob stated: "good insurance." All the yards in our part of the world recommend it. It isn't that much more work once you've got the boat in the air to do the bottom.

For the original question - it won't cost that much more and it is more protection for the hull. I'd recommend the epoxy barrier coats. Once you start running that boat, you may not want to go home.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Jack in Alaska]

My 2005 CD came from Fla. and has bottom paint on it. It looks like it has had at least 4 or 5 coats as you can see the places where it had come off in large areas and repainted and repainted etc. The boat was kept in the water there.
Now I have it in Alaska and it stays on the trailer when not out fishing but it goes on/off the trailer 3 or 4 times a week. This has really raised hell with the bottom paint in that it is scraping off on the bunks. So far I just touch it up to keep it looking ok. When the paint comes off it is all the way to the white fiberglass which leads me to believe it was not applied properly.
Can the bottom paint be removed completely, easily without damaging the fiberglass surface ?? I do not need it on the boat.
Obviously this is not an eminent problem as I am not going to lay in the snow doing bottom paint.
Thanks for any ideas.

[onefam]

Thanks for the thoughtful info and advice. It sounds to me like the barrier coats are not necessary in NW WA waters IF the hull is vinylester rather than polyester (though it's relatively cheap insurance). The question for me now is: were 2004 CD25's built with vinylester? Does anyone know? Or know how I might determine?

[Matt Gurnsey]

FWIW-

A 1986 Bayliner Trophy 25, with polyester resin, that has been in the water since day 1 and never had a barrier coat was recently sold by us, and upon haul out had one blister about the size of a quarter.

The 1985 Carver 32 I owned had a handful of blisters on it at haulout in 2005, three of which where bigger than 2 inches in diameter. These were ground out, wiped with acetone, filled with "Kitty Hair", faired and painted with modified epoxy bottom paint. At next haul out there was no sign of blistering in these areas.

My opinion (and worth what you paid for it) is that blisters in the NW are a rare occurance on boats, with the exception of Uniflites and a few other lines where blisters are a known issue due to a resin issue. For the vast majority of boats, it isn't worth the energy expended worrying about it. If a few blisters occur, fix them and move on.

The other issue with a use dboat that has never been painted, is that the barrier coat may very well trap water in the gelcoat, and create blister problems when none would have existed.

As noted, if a customer wants barrier coat, we'll do it. It isn't what we recomend and isn't our usual procedure.

[matt_unique]

It's not common up here in NE either (at least in salt water) unless a boat will sit in the water full time. I had to raise my paint line and opted to add epoxy barrier coat just to that area. The rest of the hull was already painted and I left it as is.

If I had a bare and new hull, I would personally add the barrier coat for the insurance. Otherwise, I would just keep an eye out and not worry about it.

[Doryman]

[lloyds]

Personally, I think you did the right thing warren. If you are going to leave it in the water for extended periods. My blister experience is mainly from sailboats in the water year around but some c-dorys do the same. And east coast or west coast, they can blister. Just go to any large boatyard in the northwest and you will see a lot of boats with blisters. I had them on some boats and none on others. The vinylester gelcoat on my last boat never got blisters in the ten years I had it so that may be a pretty good barrier.