Warp to Chain Splice and Whipping

[Jim & Dara]

Hello to everybody on this excellent site!

My wife and I are the proud new owners of a CD25. I replaced the rode and chain to increase the length of both and after doing research on this site chose to use the "warp to chain" splice.

My question is what method is preferred for "whipping" on three strand rode?

I've done a few searches and I'm still a little unsure.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

[hardee]

Welcome to the C-Brats and to the joys of being out on the water.

You may have already seen this thread, but if not is is very good.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=4207&highlight=splice

I have uses sail repair thread, Nylon I believe, with multiple wraps and then towards the end, run it underneath the last few wraps and then sear with a soldering iron to prevent fraying.

Harvey
SleepyC

[Brooks Cooper]

Try this site www.ropewhipping.biz/reader/whipping.pdf

[thataway]

Welcome aboard--and enjoy the C Dory 25. I use the typical back spice instead of weaving the strands of the anchor line into the chain. The whipping technique will be the same no matter which way you do this.
I have been doing the back splice (basically eye splice direcly around the first loop of chain for over 35 years, and this splice has been well tested and proofed. I don't know of any study of proofing the holding of the weave type of spice, but ancidotal information seems to suggest that it holds well. My concern is that the weave type of "splice" does not constrict the line, as pull increases, were as the back splice does.

If you mean whipping the end of the rope, you have several possibilities. I have always used Dacron whipping twine, waxed to give it more stiffness for working with. It is very rare to use nylon thread in sail making.

http://www.ropeworks.biz/reader/whipping.pdf I use tcchniques similar to what is illustated in this PDF, but I also over sew the terminal whipping by passing both ends through the line, obliquely and eventually tucking the ends into the lay of the line and cutting off flush with the surface of the line.

If you need a source of whipping line, go to Sailrite.com There is a good variety of size and color available, all prewaxed. (I still have a piece of bee's wax in the kit, as well as needles. #8 works fairly well for most whipping.

Other ways to easily whip the end of lines: use adhesive lined shrink wrap. Burn the end, and pinch it off as it cools, and then burn again, and dip in vinyl pastic liquid made for this process.

If you mean whipping at the throat of the splice, then I use the dacron whipping twine, with one of the loop back ends, and also over sew at least 3 times (once into each of the 3 strands). I would not whip the taper of the splice for windlass work.

[Sea Wolf]

Jim-

You don't say whether or not you have a windlass.....

1. If you don't have a windlass, use a metal stainless (best) or galvanized thimble around the chain's last link, wrapping the three strands around it and then braiding them back into the rope. This is the strongest and most chafe free set up, but won't pass through a windlass, and can also be difficult to pass through a small deck pipe in larger diameters of ropes and chains on big boats.

2. If you have a windlass, try the standard method where all three strands are passed around the last link of the chain and then braided back into the rope, being tapered after the first few tucks. This is a proven, workable method. If your windlass will pass this type of union, you're home free.

These first two methods are discussed HERE.

3. If method 2 produces an enlarged diameter union that jams when going through your particular windlass, we need to go to method three, where we weave the strands down into the chain, or at least some of them, in order to further reduce the union's diameter. I discussed my variation in the thread linked above by my good friend Harvey, and of which another variation is described HERE.

My method varies from the one discussed above in how the third strand is treated, mine going back into the rope instead of down into the chain, and also in that the two that go down into the chain are sewn together repetitively each time they pass each other on their way down the chain, which insures further that they won't slip out backward. This may be a bit of overkill, but it's in my game plan, and I'm sticking with it for the time being for safety's sake.

I developed my method on my own, independently. I first thought about weaving all three down into the chain, but decided to do that with just two, as it was easier and simpler to do, and to take the third backward into the rope. This makes for a smaller diameter splice, which I needed for my windlass, and just seemed more logical and easier to do.

Dr. Bob Austin did a single test of this method, and found it worked well, but did not do a heavily loaded test on it repetitively to the failure point or make comparisons to other methods for comparisons.

I've never had any trouble with mine.

Lots of possibilities to consider here!

Would love to have the equipment and time to test all these ideas out against each other!

Joe.

[Jim & Dara]

Thank you all for taking the time to share your knowledge and posting links for this newbie.

I have suddenly realized the vagueness of my original post.

We do have a windlass and the original rode was back-spliced with tapered ends and passed through the windlass without any issues.

After reading the thread started by Joe and linked by Harvey I decided I would try the warp/chain splice in the blue moment article. However, I wasn't comfortable with the final knots I used in the whipping at the throat of the splice. Thank you for the link thataway.

Joe - I chose to weave all three strands down the chain and unless I work the windlass intermittanly at the splice it does jam up a bit which I assume will quickly chafe at the connection. I now see why you ran the third strand back into the rope.

For now I think I will practice the back-splice and tapering ends.

Thanks again

So much to learn [/quote]

[Dora~Jean]

Good timing on this. I too decided to do something different than backsplicing all 3 strands back down the rope as I did about 5 yrs ago. It would jam at entering the gypsy about 1 in 3 or 4 times, annoying. So this time I tried splicing ALL 3 strands up the chain per a yachting site. It was very difficult to control the tension and produce a clean splice this way, the flexibility and bending of the chain just made it very difficult.

I've used it about 12 times now over the past month on the boat, it jams at the windlass nearly every time. The gyspy can't seem to bite the chain at the splice point while pulling up. Several tries usually gets it to bite, once it would not even after many tries so I manually fed it in on the bow.

That splice will be cut off and will go back to backsplicing all three strands with more attention to keeping a minimal diameter at the rope/chain interface. Just another data point...

[Sea Wolf]

More splicing musings:

I think that part of the problem with either back-splicing all three strands or down-splicing all three is that it is particularly difficult with the 1/2" rope and 1/4" High Test chain combination used on our sized boats and windlass gypsies.

I haven't studied it mathematically, but I suspect that in the combination above, the rope may be proportionately larger to the chain in some ways, than larger combinations, such as:

9/16" rope and 5/16" chain, or

5/8" rope and 3/8" chain, etc.

I personally lack experience with the latter three, but would like to try them and see.

In either case, whether the 1/2" rope to 1/4" chain is, or is not, more difficult, there would be an opportunity to use a larger sized chain with a size smaller rope to make the splice smaller, while still staying inside the tensile strength limits needed by our boats.

Specifically, why not use a windlass/gypsy sized for 5/16" chain with 1/2" rope, since the tensile strength of either is well within the requirements of our sized boats, and the gypsy will usually also handle the smaller rope size easily?

If I remember right, when trying the three-strand back splicing and 3-strand down splicing alternatives, the full three strand bundle didn't seem to fit well either with all three strands going down into the chain or back onto themselves, so the logical thing to do was to send two down the chain and one back up the rope.

Strangely enough, I think that on my Sea Ray I did it backwards from what I suggested above, with the rope being over-sized to the chain, being 5/8" rope to 5/16" chain, but with the the two down and one back up system, it fits very nicely and there's no big lump or jamming. And, as I remember it, I didn't even feel it necessary to taper the strands towards their ends, either the down two or the upwards one. Will have to check the rode out and see if I'm remembering this right (!).

Thanks for your enduring my thoughts!

Joe.

[thataway]

The only negative with the 5/16 chain, is that most of the small windlasses are calabrated for the HT 1/4" chain. The 1/4" chain is lighter than the 5/16" chain. The only issue in the splice, is the sharp bend of the line as it goes through the link. In the past I have used a small piece of heat shrink over the rope (threaded on as I put the strands through). However, after using this splice for some time I found this un-necessary. I just have not seen significant chafe, even when I was anchoring almost every night for 5 to 6 months out of a year. I gave my demo chain to rope splice to the new owner of Frequent Sea--the chain was used as the tie down for the bow eye.

I perfer not to rely on siezing to give strength in a splice. Sizing can chafe (of course there are ways of preventing this, such as self amalgunating tape over the siezing line.

I personally found that the 5/8" line to 3/8" chain was a bit more difficult than the 1/2" line to 1/4" chain. You can also often use the 7/16 nylon line which is plenty of strength for the C Dory sized boat.