Furuno vs. Garmin...

thataway · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject:

John
Thanks for bringing to our attention the MOB alarm from Ray Marine. I was not aware of it. This system appears to be both cheaper and do more than most of the MOB systems.

It would be perticularly handy for racing sailors--as you say commercial fisherman, and double handers--if it could be programed to bring the boat back to the MOB site--for single handers!

There are a lot of new technologies which are going to become common--such as AIS (Which shows the name, postion, speed, course, and other information about ships which are equipted with this transponder)--which we will see on the NMEA 2000 buss in the next year or so.

I like Furuno for Radar, but I'll have to admit that many of the other manufacturers have some fantastic chart plotters and other add ons to the basic screen.

smittypaddler · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:

I have a Garmin 2006C chartplotter, and a Furuno 1623 radar on Na Waqa. I can't overlay one with the other, which I'd like, but you can't beat the price. I agree with the writer above who said that a chartplotter that allowed downloads of NOAA vector charts would sell like hotcakes. I've never bought a single chip for my 2006C, because I refuse to pay for proprietary data that's already been paid for by my taxes! Instead, I use a laptop computer with Fugawi on it, and scan or download non-proprietary charts to the laptop, which is strapped to the dinette table next to the helm. Not as convenient, but a lot cheaper. The Garmin just gets used for routes, depth, and my rough location. The radar doesn't get used much at all, but after crossing lakes Erie, Huron, and Michigan mostly in fog without radar, I quickly shelled out the moula.

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject:

I can see the value of an electronic device sending a signal to a boat to stop or return to a point of MOB, especially for single-handed operators.

If you choose the return option, does the boat simply go back to the point of MOB, or does the device on the MOB have a GPS that determines the coordinates of the MOB, and then the unit(s) steer the boat to home in on the the MOB?

Does the unit allow the boat to stay at that position, shutting off the engines or going out of gear? If not.......

How do you get back on a 40 foot sportfisherman that's circling around you with two big diesels churing the water with 30 inch props? Probably not as easy as grabbing onto a jet ski!

Joe.

Sneaks · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Furuno vs Raymarine

Grumpy · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject:

Radar overlay is great and I use it often as it helps you get used to it when you actually need it.
However the problem with ALL multi-fucntion displays is that you are only 1 wire or faulty memory cell away from losing ALL of it.

I guess we all carry back up GPS and charts and I guess we can all drive with our fingers and legs etc crossed if it is dark/foggy (Since back up radar is out of the question) but I seriously ponder the addition of a portable depth sounder.

I don't know how many of you using Raymarine at Sequim noticed that some evil person has displaced John Wayne Marina by about 50 ft so you have to drive over the breakwater to get in ..........

That's why my back up is a Garmin.

Merv

thataway · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject:

The retrieval of a MOB is a topic which I fear would hijack this thread.
I have both written and lectured extensively on this issue.
The best summary is at US Sailing ref the 2005 symposium.
http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/2005_cobs.htm

Although there are many systems; the Life Sling is probably the best and easiest to use. On the C Dory, the getting aboard is not as difficult as the sport fisher, or even worse a sundeckk motor yacht. We have the Garhaur Crane Davit, which we can use to hoist a MOB back on THATAWAY. We have practiced with real people in the water (using wet suits). However even swimming several hundred feet in cold and rough water may be close to impossiable--so there are many possibilities.

As Sneaks says, some of the manufactures are going to NMEA 2000. I choose Lowrance because of that (and other features--like all of NOAA charts on the hard drive--identical to what I have on the laptop--so route planning is easy) I don't see a major issue with Furuno going to NMEA 2000--since their Navnet is very similar--but again, not compatable with other products--where as some engine manufactures have output which is directly readable on Raymarine, Lowrance etc (Simrad/Kongsberg, and Lowrance are owned by the same company) It will be interesting to see how it shakes out--bottom line is that there are a number of great products!

Grumpy · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject:

Agree with Bob.

The lifesling system combined with the 5:1 block and tackle system is excellent for a CD. We connect it with a stainless shackle either to the Radar arch cross member at the side or to the roof rail on our 22. Either way it would let us 1/2way old people get a large person out of the water. We also have a swim platform which could be used by anyone still able to do so. We showed it to a few fellow brats at Bellingham and will try to post some pictures soon.

A bit spendy and hope we never use it but............

Not sure I want my boat to come looking for me if I fall overboard !!

Merv

drjohn71a · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject:

All I mainly know for sure is that the MOB thing clipped on your lifejacket is activated by water pressure and notifies the main helm display. The first, simplest option then is to shut off the engines, maybe for Morse Electronic controls, and autopilots shift to neutral or other actions are possible.

It would be easy for the helmsman not to realize someone had fallen overboard, so the mere notification and MOB activation of GPS, etc., seems pretty valuable to me.

As for Joe's question about what do you do with a huge sport fisher running cirles around you... maybe you can have the boat rigged to deploy a squid setup of lifeslings with which to troll for you!!!

John

Grumpy · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject:

John,
That does sound like a good idea. I know if we are trolling for example, then whoever is at the helm is concentrating on speed and course and avoiding other objects while he/she at the back is fixated on the tackle and dreaming of fish. Many other situations could also lead to losing one person overboard and not immediately recognising the fact.
I can see that a shutdown would serve to get the attention of the other person on board which is good. That would also give the person overboard at least one possible shot at getting back to the boat.

I don't think I would want the boat making decisions based on some pre-programmed logic as to what it should do without a pair of eyes to guide it !!

Love the idea of trolling lifeslings. Will buy shares today. Now would you prefer to be netted, gaffed or tail tied when you get to the boat or is this catch and release ??? Xmas LOL

Merv

drjohn71a · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject:

Tail tied??? Shark bait??? maybe not...

I'm particularly interested in MOB things since I have twice fallen overboard single handling in situations which seemed peaceful and innocuous, and barely made it back aboard after 1 1/2- 3 hours of trying....

Maybe trolling a big shrimp net would work for me! John

thataway · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject:

From the RayMarine web site:
"In the event of an actual man overboard situation, the victim's LifeTag signal is rapidly degraded by immersion in water, or as the distance between the victim and boat increase (typically 30 feet.) The LifeTag base station responds automatically by sounding an audible alarm onboard to roust other crew members."

I was on a pannel on MOB, where the husband had fallen overboard while sailing downwind offshore, and the wife who was sleeping below just happened to hear him go over or his yell? She came on deck--got a glimpse of the husband, turned on the engine, and with all sheets loose started to power toward him. She lost sight of him several times--but finally got close enough to deploy the Life Sling--it was aft, and not near the helm--she got it out, and found the plastic tie was still on the line. Finally got it deployed--and went in the circle--as she headed down wind, the sails filled and the husband was almost drowned until she get the boat back head to wind. Finally she got him to the stern--and it was almost impossiable to get him aboard.

Bottom line--about 6 months after the seminar--and a year after the incident the husband left the wife for younger pastures!--I sure hope he found a gal who would have come back for him again....or...maybe gaffed him.

No matter what type of boat, one has to have a plan, like Grumpy, which will work, to get a person aboard. Do not assume that even the largest and strongest person the boat can get the other person back aboard. Of course in our C Dory type of boats, the risks are less than most other boats..

drjohn71a · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the note about Raymarine's site. The article that mentioned it implied that it did more. However, I am having one of those "Lifetag" units installed on my new TomCat. I guess about all it does is activate the Man Overboard function and sound an alarm, but up in your cold cold waters, I want everyone to know if I hit the drink.

Bob on Thataway... I noticed you had that portable pole to hook your life sling block and tackle up. Do you think a guy could just attach that block and tackle to the tall radar arch and lift from there? Or pull at an angle aft from the radar arch? I am just trying to minimize accessory junk in the cockpit. John

Grumpy · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject:

John,

Can't speak for the TC buy my block and tackle works fine on a CD22 off either the cross bar at either side of the radar arch OR the roof handrail. I have measured (but not yet tried) and I reckon that this would get the major part of someone's body weight up to a point where you could drag them over the side and dump them into the cockpit.
I like the block and tackle that sells with the Lifesling set because is has a built-in cleat where you can block the hauling line while you attend to the person in the sling. Be rather embarrasing to haul them up to the yard arm (so to speak) and then drop them.

I figure it might cause a few bruises but whoever gets tham should be grateful!!

Let's not forget the other essential. This should be practised a few times so that all members of the crew know how to do it alone !!! I am lacking in that respect and sure as hell not going to try it until next Summer but I do explain it to all who come on board.

Haven't fallen off a power boat yet but am an expert at turning sailboats over. Embarrased

Merv

JamesTXSD · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:

I run a Garmin small chartplotter with bluechart chips next to the E-80 with the Platinum Navionics charts. After 4 or 5 Garmin units, there was a learning curve with the Raymarine. Most of the time, the two agree. When there is obvious charting error (based on what the eyeballs see), they seem to agree on that, as well. I have always been a big fan of Garmin, but the Platinum charting available on the Raymarine is my preference over the Garmin.

I have no experience with the Furuno, but I sure am pleased with the Raymarine radar, and especially the integration. I understand the concerns about what happens if something fails, but I think the advantages while it's working outweigh that, at least for us. (You pay your money, you make your choice.) Thus the reason for a backup chartplotter (internal battery capable) and another handheld unit. I also carry two handheld VHF radios for backup, as well.

I had occasion to find out what Raymarine factory service is like recently... the ST6002 autopilot began behaving badly, and the closest servicing dealer is over 150 miles away. After some troubleshooting on the phone with Raymarine support, I removed the display unit and sent it in for repair. They had it back to me in 9 days, and that included Thanksgiving in the middle of that. I was very impressed.

And regarding that whole "British vs Japanese" debate... I think the days of Lucas (aka the Prince of Darkness) lights and unreliable old English sports cars are in the past. If any product, regardless of the country of origin, can't compete in a world market, they won't last. Are we discussing Jaguar vs Mitsubishi or an old Toyota pickup vs an MGB? Wink

I'm pleased with the nav setup on Wild Blue; it works and has gotten us home in some low vis, crappy weather situations. Thumbs Up

Best wishes,
Jim B.

Grumpy · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject:

Amen to the remark about Raymarine service. I had a C-80 crap out on me and after you get past the inevitable ritual of service calls to a person who ignores 90% of the described symptoms they eventually tell you to send it back.
Repaired and returned in about 1 week with no questions asked.
Merv