Low speed control & docking

[rjmcnabb]

Hi Brats,
I need some advice or comment on my low speed handling problems!
Coming up to start docking manoeuvers needs a right turn into the aisle and then an immediate left turn into my slip, bringing the finger pier onto my port side. As I take that right, I have to be concerned about a big metal ring around the dock piling there, not to hit it directly-and not have my stern swing into it when I start the left turn. Things are pretty tight. The problem I seem to have is that I have so little steerage-way that the boat responds poorly, and is overcome easily by minor wind and current factors. Docking, usually solo but even when not, is a Keystone Kops scene. It seems that the bow blows off, the flat stern takes no bite on the water, and many movements seem almost random. I had similar trouble before with a Nimble Vagabond, even though it was a displacement Sharpie hull with more of the bow in the water, which I presumed would help the bow to respond more slowly to wind gusts, etc. People on the docks just say that it all takes practice (and some of them are impossibly slick.) Well enough, but most of them seem to have deep-V hulls. How much of an advantage does a deep-V hull offer in places like this? Is there enough of a keel effect in a deep-V to make a difference? Docking a 19-foot sail boat (dagger board down, or fixed keel) in these narrow confines is tight, but infinitely easier.
Am I just a long way down on the learning curve, or can Brats offer me advice about controlling slide and side-slip across the water?
On another tack, I had thought about an electric trolling motor as a bow thruster, and I saw the recent thread on that topic. I ran across a small ad recently, perhaps in an older copy of Pacific Yachting (BC,) for such a motor mounted on a V-shaped channel that could be fitted to the bow's cutwater. The interesting claim was that there were no fasteners below the waterline, and I guess that on plane the electric motor would be out of the water. There did not seem any means to move the motor up, so I guess it would have to take the assault of water up to 8-9 knots until a C-Dory 22 can come up onto plane.
Any pearls (wisdom or otherwise) will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Rod

[colobear]

What!!!you actually practice docking by braille!!! no one else has ever done that!!! Slow, slow, slow and practice, practice, practice, practice, might reduce the number of embarrassing incidents but they'll always be lurking. Just know that your travails are not yours alone..

[ghone]

Hi Rod, I'm new to power with our 19 our first power boat. Coming from a lot of years on sailboats I've found manoevering the dory in close quarters using the same techniques from the sailboat. It's called backing and filling. For the first turn in it may seem strange to come to a stop instead of driving around the corner, but try it. To turn, leave throttle at idle power wheel hard over where you want to go, go to forward gear, as she starts to swing, go to neutral spin the wheel hard the opposite way and reverse still at idle power. As she starts to swing, go to neutral wheel hard toward where you want to go, forward gear, idle power. Don't use lots of throttle as there is lots of thrust to push the bows around. Also if you get out of control idle speeds produce less carnage than full throttle. What we used to do on teaching sailboat manoevers was go out in open water and practise till you could spin the boat in it's own length. Lots of wheel work and reverse/forward. I'm still learning on approach to a paralell dock to do the 30 degree angle to the dock approcach like normal and then go to nuetral and glide in then with a turn of the wheel "toward' the dock go to reverse to straiten out. Left brain/ right brain linkage sometimes shorts out. Some landings are super, some I'm glad for fenders. It is counter intuitive to turn toward the dock on approach but the reverse gear fixes that. When I do it right it's sweet. George

[rjmcnabb]

Hi Patti & Barry and George,
Thanks guys, I know that I am not alone here, but feelings of total incompetence, even when I am sure that I am executing the proper "back-and-fill" motor work, don't sit well. George, I ahve practiced in open water, trying mightily to turn in my own length and I can do. At, or near, the dock I often bring her to full stop to check the situation. Most of my attempts are at idle throttle, except at times when I give a very short burst of gas to get the prop to bite and kick the stern-- then back to idle or neutral. I am trying to use prop walk, going forward or astern, in my favour. I'm also thinking about P-factor, but at these low speeds and with the motor trimmed to vertical, I think prop walk is more important. In June, I installed a Sport SE fin, a plastic version of that popular Permatrim everyone seems to have. I hoped it would help on low speed work, but it does not seem to be any improvement. Not a detriment, either, as far as I can tell.
Reading tells me that the pivot point of a boat varies, depending on if you are going forward or astern. I can't pick up much feeling about where the pivot points are, somewhere in the middle, but pivot sure is important in decisions about when to put over the helm, or when to got to neutral and swing the motor all the way over before changing gear.
Waxing on here, I guess my problem is greatest when textbook approaches (I've got a couple of books on handling and docking that tell me this,) just don't do what they are supposed (?) to do. Nothing new there, I suppose. I am on the list for the CP&SS boating course when it is given next on the island. More contact with old salts should be good. Thank you, Brats.
Rod

[Papillon]

Been There....Done That...Still Doing That!

I had the same problems with side slip and when I installed Bob's Stabilizing Plate (Bob's Machine Shop, Florida) it improved my low speed turning greatly.

Then a few weeks back I repowered with a new Suzuki 115 and I found I have the same old side slipping problem. I had let the Stabilizing plate go with the old motor. I called Bob's and have an new plate shipping today to put on the Suzuki and I will let you know if it cures our problem as it did on the old Evinrude.

It is designed with ribs that grab the water and keep the side slip down. As I understand it and by looking at the design, Permatrims do the same thing with the down turned wings on the ends.

On another note, ask one of those old salts who tell you to practice more to come aboard and show you how it is done...then enjoy the look of frustration on their face while they try to make our flat bottom boats perform at slow speed like their deep "V"s.

[matt_unique]

It's counter intuitive, but sometimes a little more throttle will make her respond better than idle. It of course totally depends on the situation.

I might suggest another approach altogether; instead of a sharp right into the alley followed by a sharp left to dock on the port side, I suggest turning right into the alley then coming to a complete stop to then back into your slip and dock on the starboard side. Your helm station is starboard, and you will find it is easier to dock on the side of the boat closest to the helm station (you can see a little better). It will also be easier to control because you are negating the "transfer and advance" of a sharp left followed by a sharp right. (Transfer and advance refers to the distance traveled forward and perpendicular when you turn a boat).

You're not going to have much prop-walk from your outboard.

Good luck and it will come!

[JamesTXSD]

When we picked up Wild Blue, Oldgrowth Dave sent me a message stating that it might be a good idea to come to the southern Puget Sound to get some practice in away from the crowds. That turned out to be some great advice. Also coming from a sailing background, found no amount of turning the wheel and/or swearing would turn the boat if you don't have some power on. In order to improve my learning curve, I spent time in that marina going in and out of random unoccupied slips. Joan would tell me when I was close enough that she could have stepped off with line in hand... sometimes the dock would tell me. That practice of different slips facing different directions, tide, wind, and current, really helped my learning curve.

Oh, and prior to taking on the docks, I also practiced in open water... with a floating cushion tossed into the water as my marker. It's one thing to maneuver in open water and another to have something (soft) to maneuver to and around.

Of course, you've heard, "Practice makes perfect"... not particularly true with these boats, but practice does make better. In close quarters, I apply a small amount of throttle (if the boat lurches, it's too much), put it in neutral to see the effect, then plan the next move. Wind is tough on these boats, but coming from a sailing background, you know what signs on the water to watch and use the wind to help maneuver you. There have been times when I stop a couple feet out from a dock and just let the wind move me in.

A good size round fender hanging just behind the bow rail (and just in front of the windows) is helpful to cushion diagonal-in maneuvers.

As often stated, it's a compromise. The flatter bottom can be tougher to learn and control in slow speed situations, but it pays off in economy and comfort at other times. And, it allows you to poke into places deep-v boats fear to tread.

Good luck with the learning curve - keep us posted on your progress.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Captains Cat]

It helps that our boats are about the same size as our cars and not a whole lot bigger!!



Charlie

[Alok]

Rod:

Current is not an issue in our marina, but we often have a cross-wind, sometimes 15 knots or more. Instead of fightng the wind, I just use it to help me line up the bow into the slip.

I also have to make a right and then a left turn into my slip. I have a foot of red ribbon, a tell-tale as the sailors would call it, taped to the front of the bow rail. Just before the right turn, I come to stop and check wind direction using the tell-tale and then prepare my plan for entering the slip.

The wind directly astern, of course, is perfect- it straightens out the boat nicely. The wind from straight ahead requires an application of power to line up the bow; in your case, you may want to back into the slip. If the wind is from the port or starboard, I purposely let the bow overshoot the slip and let the wind blow the bow back and line me up. If the wind is from port, this actually requires backing past the slip and then coming in.

Of course, while all this is going on, I am also backing and filling to fine-tune my position.

I have finger piers on both sides of the slip. Once the bow is in the slip, the wind gets the stern (I have a bimini) and tries to get the boat cross-wise, needing a little kick with the motor the keep the stern straight.

I guess everyone develops their own technique. The tell-tale has been a big help. Good luck!

[digger]

One thing that really helped me with docking is : if you have trim tabs, trim them down fully, and it helps anchor the stern while controlling the bow. Of course, I didn't have them on the Dory -- had them on a Cruisers. Ron

[localboy]

[tomherrick]

Rod,

This blows any keep it simple axiom you may be trying to follow, but the idea of a trolling motor as bow thruster is intriguing to me. Where I live there are more bass boats than fish and they've all got foot-controlled trolling motors mounted at the bow. Heading up a river in my kayak I watch them as they are able to delicately maneuver their boats in any direction with their foot while using both hands for fishing. Docking with the combination of a foot-controlled trolling motor with your hands on the helm and main engine control it would seem to have major advantages over a standard left-right bow thruster. I've never done this, but trying to get my head inside the method, it seems very doable - with some practice.

Hmmm, perhaps worth some consideration on my boat...

Tom Herrick

[hank schneider]

Hi Folks
My throttle control was set much too tight making the docking experience challenging with wind or current. It was also difficult to mange speed in heavy seas - you would have to pop it which would result in a 2-3K change in RPM. Pat adjusted it so that it is smooth (almost a little loose) and it gave me better control around the dock. It had the added benefit of reducing the minimum RPM to something like 600 which produces a nice slow troll. Drill a 1/4" hole in the cover so the set screw can be adjusted w/o removing the cover.
Hank

[Chuckpacific]

The biggest issue is not having a keel...I think it took me three years before docking felt worry-free. My slip is facing into the current on the Columbia but deals with current speed, tide direction and wind. I think the key for me was when I decided to use those variables first and power second.

[Bess-C]

The simplest and most inexpensive help for slow speed handling took me 3 years to figure out. Add a tractor knob or spinner to the steering wheel.

This allows you to go lock to lock on your steering wheel almost instantaneously if you have hydraulic steering. After I added it, I could make extremely quick corrections when the wind blew me off course when docking. It immediately improved my ability to control the boat.
Lyle