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C-Dory with extended roof
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thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20778
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My major concern with the cantaleavered frame is getting in and out of the boat from a high dock, and getting from the cocpit to the side deck. I am tall, and have some back problems which may color my view about this. Otherwise it is a great design. The fiberglass will weigh more than the Canvas, but not a lot more, if properly done with light weight core material.
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Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
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BRAZO



Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 650
City/Region: Full-time Travel
State or Province: NV
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meyer Meyer
Photos: BRAZO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thataway wrote:
My major concern with the cantaleavered frame is getting in and out of the boat from a high dock, and getting from the cocpit to the side deck.


For the most part, the frame doesn't create any more challenges than what a normal high dock can cause (w/CD22). In some ways it gives you more points of contact (handles, etc) to get yourself in and out of the boat.

But we are still fairly young without issues, so I can't comment on the possible issues with experience.

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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 5922
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent, I don't yet have much experience fishing from my tomcat but with the engines on the bracket, I assume that most netting of fish is done by bringing them along the side. Hence, if you do need a second support, I don't think you'd want it too far rearward. Nonetheless, I can see how such a setup would likely be less hassle for fishing than the typical canvas bimini. One thing you might consider if you go with fiberglass is to design it in such a way that the support tubes can also be used as "rain gutters". I saw a boat at the Seattle boat show that had such a design. In brief, the rail supports for 2' extension to the cabin roof were similar to the bent rails supporting Brazo's top. They terminated in the comers of the extended roof as through holes. the lower end went to a drain under the gunwales. The roof had a little lip on it to keep the water from running off the back side and to direct it to the drains. I have some pictures I'll post when I get a chance.
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DaveS



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 3204
City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BRAZO wrote:
thataway wrote:
My major concern with the cantaleavered frame is getting in and out of the boat from a high dock, and getting from the cocpit to the side deck.


For the most part, the frame doesn't create any more challenges than what a normal high dock can cause (w/CD22).


Robert, I suspect that what Dr. Bob is referring to (above) by a "high dock" is in areas where "fixed" docks are present and there is a significant fluctuation of water levels due to tidal (or lake level) changes.
Personally, I would not have thought about that as all of the docks that I have frequented in this area have floating docks, so it would be a non-issue. However, this issue could be a real concern since we do trailer our boats and although we may not think it an issue now, we could end up in waters where fixed docks and significant water level changes are present.

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Discovery



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1239
City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Bob,

I agree that a large tidal flux and fixed docks could be a problem.

This is the dock at Panama City Marina, Florida. The CD 22 is Kurbit.
At times the tide was even lower than this pic shows. We would have to climb on the cabin roof and step over to the dock. I don't think the fixed cockpit canopy would be any harder than negotiating around a bimini top. The hardtop would be easier to hold on to than the flimsy bimini. You could egress from the other side of the boat, go forward and onto the dock from the bow.

Brent

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1984 22' Classic sold 2003
2003 24' TomCat sold 2005
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BRAZO



Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 650
City/Region: Full-time Travel
State or Province: NV
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Meyer Meyer
Photos: BRAZO
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
by a "high dock" is in areas where "fixed" docks are present and there is a significant fluctuation of water levels due to tidal (or lake level) changes.



Not sure why this would be an issue. Many times we are at a dock where the fixed dock is much higher than the boat (without tides) and the frame is not a factor. It's a challenge either way and sometimes the frame helps with a place to grab while boarding.

Thanks.
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rogerbum



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 5922
City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture of the Ocean Sport 34 fiberglass roof extension. This is the kind of thing I'd want for a TomCat.

The aft support rail serves as a "rain gutter".
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Discovery



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 1239
City/Region: LOA, UTAH
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Discovery
Photos: Discovery
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerbum,

Thanks for the pic of the Ocean Sport. Interesting idea, not sure if the diameter of the drain tube could keep up with much rain. I want something big enough to act as a camperback top, and a place to store a 8' 6" dingy.

Yes, most fish are netted from the side, and that's why the concept of a cantilevered top, like in the pic's, is appealing. We usually troll with the bimini up, and can deal with the netting issue. I guess bigger Salmon may pose problems tho. Most of our TomCat fishing is for Striped Bass. They wear out fairly fast and come to the boat quietly.

I just wish I could make this fabrication happen, but I am in Texas. The boat in Utah, and the fabrication shops need to take measurements and fit as they work.

Brent
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Capt Harpoon



Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 41
City/Region: St. Lawrence River
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Hag
Photos: Sea Hag
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have spent days (weeks) staring at Brazo's canvas frame and trying to think of all the pros and cons of such a setup.
Today I had a new (perhaps crazy) idea.
Would it be possible to mount a very short and small removable davit arm to the side of the frame that could be used to raise and lower an outboard on to the transom of a dingy and/or be used as an emergency MOB lifting device to haul someone back aboard (or at least chest clear of cold water)?
I am thinking of a short aluminum arm mounted on a solid rod pin that could be inserted into an aluminum tube welded onto the frame somewhere. It only need clear the gunnel, maybe 12-18" or so? Add a brace in a triangular configuration and insert it in a socket welded on the frame at the side or rear somewhere (maybe multiple sockets).
If the frame is rock solid with 180 lb Roger doing chin-ups, it should be able to do this very easily (at least the outboard part).
Sort of a built in Garhauer davit system!
Would it work? Any design help/hints?
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Capt Harpoon



Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 41
City/Region: St. Lawrence River
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Hag
Photos: Sea Hag
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I joined the ranks of Roger (flrockytop on C-Lover) and Robert (BRAZO) and ordered a canvas frame from Blue Coral. I made a few additions to theirs and am very pleased with the results. Installing it was a bit tricky, but in the end it turned out great!
Like Roger, I can hang from the "monkey bars" (as my wife calls them) no problem (and I weigh more than he does). We added the side rails to the frame for the Thule rack so we can carry bicycles, kayaks, or a roof storage box as needed. We haven't tried that yet, but will in the next week or two. I also had tabs installed for deck lights, speakers, flag staff, and anchor light.
Thank you to Roger (C-Lover) and Robert (BRAZO) for all their help with this project, and to Rowland Stanton at Blue Coral for great service.
The cost of the frame with side rails, rocket launchers and canvas; packed, crated, and delivered to my door by motor freight, was about $2350 (freight from FL to northern NY was less than $150).
I think we will find it far more useful than a conventional bimini top.


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Grazer



Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 183
City/Region: Yukon
State or Province: YT
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Horse
Photos: Grazer
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! I love this site. This is exactly what I have in mind for my boat as well. I am so glad others have done this and seem pleased with the results. I would love to here how the Thule rack idea for kayaks worked.

Great work.

Grazer
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Capt Harpoon



Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 41
City/Region: St. Lawrence River
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Hag
Photos: Sea Hag
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't seem to find the pictures of the Thule rack up there but will post them when I find them. Had a Native Ultimate 14.5 tandem open kayak on the Thule rack, about 75 lbs. The top handled the weight no problem, but the spread of the Thule bars caused them to sag a bit. Never tried the Thule box but probably will this summer and will let you know how it works. Will have to keep it light - not for the aluminum/canvas top, but for the Thule bars themselves.
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redbaronace



Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 581
City/Region: Puget Sound
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Photos: redbaronace (Name TBD)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt Harpoon wrote:
Well, I joined the ranks of Roger (flrockytop on C-Lover) and Robert (BRAZO) and ordered a canvas frame from Blue Coral. I made a few additions to theirs and am very pleased with the results. Installing it was a bit tricky, but in the end it turned out great!
Like Roger, I can hang from the "monkey bars" (as my wife calls them) no problem (and I weigh more than he does). We added the side rails to the frame for the Thule rack so we can carry bicycles, kayaks, or a roof storage box as needed. We haven't tried that yet, but will in the next week or two. I also had tabs installed for deck lights, speakers, flag staff, and anchor light.
Thank you to Roger (C-Lover) and Robert (BRAZO) for all their help with this project, and to Rowland Stanton at Blue Coral for great service.
The cost of the frame with side rails, rocket launchers and canvas; packed, crated, and delivered to my door by motor freight, was about $2350 (freight from FL to northern NY was less than $150).
I think we will find it far more useful than a conventional bimini top.




Looks great and I have tagged for reference. Do you know how much extra it would have been to have the full camper sides and eisenglass done? This would be my preference for the NW weather and year around boating.
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Capt Harpoon



Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 41
City/Region: St. Lawrence River
State or Province: NY
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Hag
Photos: Sea Hag
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know the cost of a full enclosure and eisenglass windows. We wanted to do that too, and started this adventure with a standard bimini top and a full enclosure. We were surprised at the variation in cost estimates we received, but found someone we liked and who had some interesting ideas. At the time, I researched Brats' albums extensively. My favorite camper canvas ideas came from Foggy Dew, Valkyrie, and Berta's Boy. I liked the forward facing windows on Berta's Boy, the clear window panel between the cabin and the free standing bimini, and the split rear panel with zippered roll up door for swim step access. I liked the access to downriggers on Foggy Dew, too.
In the end, we dropped the traditional bimini and went this route for a completely open cockpit with no bimini hoops in the way. Once we went with the aluminum frame, I was back to looking at BRAZO for a full enclosure. BRAZOs is home made and I decided I would consider trying it ourselves, but never did. I may very well revisit the idea, but we haven't had the time to use Sea Hag as much as we hoped (maybe this year).
During our research, I PMd a lot of Brats with tons of questions, and they were extremely helpful and patient (thank you!). Spend these nasty March nights with rain and snow looking through albums while waiting for the boat ramps to thaw out! Won't be too long now - places we rode our four wheeler last week are almost open water now. Thinking spring ....
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breausaw



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1222
City/Region: Anchorage
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Triple J
Photos: Triple J
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the elegance of the cantilever, however the sheer number of welds makes this an expensive project.
Granted the lack of rear supports is desirable I would need a top capable of handling large snow loads.

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