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C-Dawg
Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 509 City/Region: Spanaway
State or Province: WA
Photos: C-Dawg
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: Anchor rode twist |
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The C-Dawg crew hasn't done much anchoring in the past, so the windlass is pretty quiet. But last weekend while chasing sturgeon on the lower Columbia the cabon-based windlass got a real workout and started to make some noise.
The windlass mentioned at one point that the rode was getting twisted. Sure enough, I noticed after each retrieval that the entire rode--chain and line--was developing more twist each time, which developed into kinks that needed to be straightened next time we set anchor. Another thread here mentioned that rode twist was a result of hauling the anchor too fast. I don't believe that to be the issue here; not saying she's slow, but she definately doesn't pull too fast. The other thread also talked about shackles that swivel, but I'm disinclined to go that route.
So how do we prevent rode twist? Do those with an electric windlass still develop twist? _________________ Rick & Shirley
Go Dawgs!
C-Dawg sold November 2018 |
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Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 7313 City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Anchor rode twist |
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C-Dawg wrote: |
The windlass mentioned at one point that the rode was getting twisted.
Sure enough, I noticed after each retrieval that the entire rode--chain and line--was developing more twist each time, which developed into kinks that needed to be straightened next time we set anchor.
So how do we prevent rode twist? Do those with an electric windlass still develop twist? |
Boy that's one advanced windlass, it talks to you??
I guess if it's a counter clockwise twist, you could put the boat in reverse while you hauled it up, put the engine hard to starboard and it would untwist as it came up...
How much line do you normally have out?
Do you have a swivel in the system at any point?
Charlie _________________ CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
K4KBA |
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ffheap
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 733 City/Region: Hingham
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 1983
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Inn-The-Water
Photos: Inn-The-Water
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Folks,
I have a windless on my 22' Angler and have a STAINLESS STEEL DOUBLE SWIVEL attached between the anchor and the rode
No twist but sometimes the rode jumps off of the wheel.
If you put one on, the twist will stop.
Fred _________________ Fred |
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Papillon
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 949 City/Region: DeBary, Fl. *On the St. John's River*
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Papillon
Photos: Papillon
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Let me get this right. You have a problem with anchor rode twist. You don't want to install a swivel. You want to know your "other" options...Ok
1. Try another style anchor...one without wings.
2. Remove the windlass and install an anchor wench...the kind that wears a bikini and hauls your anchor up by hand.
But your best bet is to become inclined to install a swivel.
I personaly like option number 2 the best.
(Disclaimer)All of the above post should be taken toungue in cheek. _________________ Mike Taylor
330-936-1030
1993 Angler-02' 115 Suzuki 4 Stroke |
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Captains Cat
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 7313 City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Papillon wrote: | Let me get this right. You have a problem with anchor rode twist. You don't want to install a swivel. You want to know your "other" options...Ok
1. Try another style anchor...one without wings.
2. Remove the windlass and install an anchor wench...the kind that wears a bikini and hauls your anchor up by hand.
But your best bet is to become inclined to install a swivel.
I personaly like option number 2 the best.
(Disclaimer)All of the above post should be taken toungue in cheek. |
1. Wow, it talks AND flies (wings).
2. Where do you get one of those wenches..ll. Can you go to Rent-A-Wench? Not that I could be allowed to have one....
Try a swivel, buy a strong one...
Charlie |
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DaveS
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 3204 City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Papillon wrote: | Remove the windlass and install an anchor wench...the kind that wears a bikini and hauls your anchor up by hand. |
Is it possible to purchase one of those at West Marine? If so, do they sell any kinky....I mean twisted ones? _________________ Dave S.
"Sea Shift"
C-Brat #16 |
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Papillon
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 949 City/Region: DeBary, Fl. *On the St. John's River*
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Papillon
Photos: Papillon
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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No Dave,
I don't think you will find this item at West Marine....unless your local WM store is located at Division Street and Watson Road...but watch out they take your picture and publish it. |
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jkidd
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 1616 City/Region: Northern, Utah
State or Province: UT
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Voyager
Photos: Voyager (JK)
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dave
Down boy don't want to get your rope in a twist. _________________ Jody Kidd
KE7WNG
Northern, Utah
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C-Dawg
Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 509 City/Region: Spanaway
State or Province: WA
Photos: C-Dawg
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:05 am Post subject: |
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I have a Bruce type (claw) anchor and never thought about the wings causing it to spin on the way up. But even so, I'm only anchored in <20' of water with <75' of line out. So even upon retrieval it's less than 20' the anchor is free to spin.
I was reading the thread about rode swivels and many said they didn't use a swivel and that the swivel was a possible weak link because of lateral forces and stress. So, do those people have the same twisting problem without the swivel?
As far as replacing my carbon-based windlass, I doubt I could afford it. It's cheaper to eventually purchase an electric one and let her operate it. |
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kennharriet
Joined: 22 Jan 2009 Posts: 510 City/Region: Grangeville
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lochsa
Photos: Lochsa
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Obviously your rode has been subjected to the reverse Coreolous Effect. The solution is to simply do your future boating south of the equator. |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if Dave S's rope or mind is more twisted, but if he's like the rest of us old farts, it gets harder to get either one twisted up as time goes by.......
and now about the twisted rode ..............
Anchors with flukes tend to "fly" especially on the way down and sometimes on the way back up, inducing twists, and all boats can twist the rode if the wind spins them around from directional changes.
The best solution, with a winch, wench, windlass, winsome lass or whatever is to stop and let the rode unwind on the way up, unless you're in some situation where you can't afford the time or associated dangers.
An all chain rode is the quickest to make itself unwind due to its nature, and another reason I favor it.
Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 4656 City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: |
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I have nothing constructive to add to this debate; I have a Force swivel installed, have only used my anchor once, have no issue with my "rope twisting" (yet ) and do NOT own or know a wench (I'm confident THE Admiral would not allow me such an after market add-on ). All in all, this thread is amusing. But it doesn't appear C-Dawg is getting a realistic answer.
On a serious note, all this talk of swivels/weakness etc has made me realize that installing one on my rode has both advantagaes and disadvantages. I'll hook to a buoy whenever possible. _________________ "We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
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matt_unique
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1881 City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: Twist |
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I have never had twist or had my rode jump the gypsy. I have a 22lb Delta anchor attached to 25' of chain and 275' of 3-strand nylon line.
I don't have a swivel, but I do periodically release the windlass switch while retrieving in case there has been any sort of "spin". Also, I will pause the retrieval if I notice any sign of twisting of the rode that may lead to other trouble. I usually pause just once while retrieving.
I know some swear by the swivel, and it probably works great in most normal conditions. I have this nagging feeling that it creates a weak point if I were ever in a high load situation.
Good luck. _________________ Captain Matt
Former owner of Napoleon (Tomcat) Hull #65 w/Counter Rotating Suzuki 150's. |
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DaveS
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 3204 City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Although I don't use swivels, it would seem to me that if using one and you fear that it might break and leave your anchor down at Davy Jones Locker, you could at least insure that you could retrieve your anchor by attaching a "trip line" to your anchor with the other end attached to a round fender floating on the water's surface. (Of course, that doesn't solve your problem of an unplanned drift if the "weak link" breaks while you are sleeping).
On occasion, I have extended my anchor rode completely out while the boat is on the trailer and "untwisted" the twists, thereby starting anew.
(Once in a great while I can be serious.... ) |
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cemiii
Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 419 City/Region: Alamo
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: The Last One........ III
Photos: The Last One, III
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I know there are a lot of differing opinions on anchor swivels.
Since my shackles, anchor and swivel are all in the garage right now, I went out and put the shackle on the anchor and the swivel on the shackle and found there was virtually no angle I could find that would put undue side loads on the swivel. So that combo, suggested in the other thread, may be a very good improvement over a swivel only.
I have not checked whether the added length of the two combined connectors fits in front of the windlass and I suspect this would vary boat to boat and anchor to anchor anyway.
I have a friend who can weld stainless and I may ask him to spot weld the pins on the swivel to remove any possibility of backing out. I also think I may add a safety clip to either the shackle or anchor itself, for trailering security. This should help relieve 90% of my swivel paranoia.
Now, as soon as I perfect the “string and mini-anchor toe harness” to wake me in the event of dragging, I’ll sleep well on the boat again too. _________________ Chris Murphy
Alamo, CA
87 22' Angler 08 Etec 90/07 Johnson 9.9 |
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