Shackle size and recommendation?

[Lil Rascal]

I am in need of a new anchor, chain and a shackle. I plan on getting a 16 pound claw anchor and 1/4 inch ACCO G-4 high test chain. I am confused about the shackles. What size would I need?

Thanks,
Scott on Lil' Rascal

[thataway]

The biggest shackle you can fit through the chain. 5/16 at least in size.
I went out the garage, and I have some coil proof chain (no G4 on it) which is .285" link metal diameter. This will take a 3/8" shackle since the internal link distance is .483". I suspect that most G 4 will take 3/8" shackles.

You may need to use two shakles. Be sure and secure the pin with monel wire or zip ties.

[Lil Rascal]

Bob,

Do you mean two shackles connected to the same chain link and then to the anchor?

Scott

[journey on]

Here are some free comments. and rest assured you'll get a lot more of the same. Please remember that your anchor is a vital piece of safety gear, and not something just to have on board.

First, you're in SoCal, so I assume you'll be boating off the California coast. If you go to any of the islands off Santa Barbara, and you should, you'll be anchoring in some grass and kelp. Journey On's claw anchor (a Bruce,) had trouble digging in kelp/grass. It really refused to set and made us look like we had never anchored before. This was a great anchor everywhere else, but it really has no sharp edges to cut into the kelp. We've had good luck with a Danforth, and I got a Manson, since it has a good point, and it is supposed to hold in every bottom known to mankind. By the way, Bruce anchors ane not available anymore. Fortress anchors are too light to set in kelp. We tried that also.

Second, G-4 chain is hi-test, which with Journey On is equipped. It came with the boat, because that's what fits the anchor windlass.. Since you have a C-22, you may consider G-3 proof coil chain, at half the price. Make sure you get ACCO chain which I hope is still made in the USA. There is 70' of chain on journey On. That may be overdoing it, but get at least 30'. 15' of chain doesn't always do the trick.

If you have a windlass, it's probably sized for 1/2" 3 strand. Even if you don't have a windlass (God's gift to backs and wives,) I'd stick with 1/2" though 3/8" would probably work. The windlass will require a chain to rope splice, which Sea Wolf will explain. they are easy to do and hold well. Get 200' and then you can end-to-end it after a couple of years.

If you don't have a windlass, most anchor lines come with a loop and thimbal in one end. If you want, you can use this loop and shackle it to the anchor, and another shackle to connect the anchor to the other chain end.

To shackle things together, get the biggest shackle whose pin will fit through the chain link, and seize it with stainless wire as Bob mentioned above. I put a swivel between the anchor and rode in place of a shackle.. In addition, you'll find that West Marine usually has imported shackles. Defender has USA shackles. However, I usually get them from crane rigging services, of which there are several in San Pedro.

Good luck and I hope we meet at Santa Cruz or Catalina Isles. For some SoCal anchorages you'll need an aft anchor also. It can be a lighter anchor.

Boris

[thataway]

Some times you cannot get the shackle to fit through the chain link and the anchor shank, so you can use two--one through the anchor, the second through the chain. The shackle is often the weakest link.

I boated in S. Calif for about 50 years before moving to Florida. I used Danforth's in all of my racing boats--and generally didn't have a problem setting the anchor on the first try. I agree that probably the Manson Supreme (there are a variety of Manson anchors) is a very good choice.
I also used a CQR Plow, but would not recommend that for a C Dory. A Delta Quck Set is another good option. For the stern anchor I would use a Danforth--most of the time, the stern will be in sand. (But as Boris says, watch out for the Kelp). One thought about length of anchor rode:
30 feet is very common in channel island anchorages. Add another 3 feet for the bow, and 6 feet for tide, you can be up to 40 feet--40x 7 = 280 feet. Then consider if you ever have to anchor at "Two Harbors"--or Avalon. The water gets to 100 feet very quickly. I always carried at least another 200 to 300 feet of anchor line which could be used for either the bow or stern. Also this extra line may be necessary when setting two anchors--set the stern, pay out 600 feet, drop the bow and then back to the middle with 300 feet out on each rode.

7/16" line is sometimes a good compromise, hands better than 3/8, which is strong enough, yet is lighter and more compact. I like the chain back splice, vs weaving the line through the chain. But that is just my habit, having done it that way for over 40 years. (The old Simpson Lowrance "Sea Horse" windlass had a rope to chain gypsy).

[Dora~Jean]

One quick comment and caution when using the standard SS swivel (available at WM) between the chain the the anchor shank. Add a shackle between the swivel and anchor to lessen the possibility of breaking the swivel due to side loads. Another boater pointed this out on my setup, he has seen them fail, and believe me, you DON'T want any failure in your anchor system!

I have a 22lb Delta anchor, the same one for the last 2 boats (prior was a 32ft trimaran), no problems whatsoever at all the islands I've visited in SoCal, San Francisco and even the Bahamas. 30 ft of G-4 chain, good advice, rule of thumb -- equal to or greater than the length of your boat, more is better if you can handle the weight forward, and on these boats, weight forward is a plus.

[Tortuga]

As Boris and Bob both said, So Cal has its own unique anchoring challenges -- depth and grass/kelp being the two dominant ones. I've always used Danforth anchors (13-S) with great success -- you'll be amazed at the kelp heads you'll pull up from time to time.

On Tortuga I have a Bruce with 40' of chain and 250' of braided anchor line on my bow and a 13-S Danforth with 20' of chain and 200' of smaller 3 strand on my stern. I also carry an additional 200' of line and an 8 foot length of heavier chain (3/8") to lengthen my anchor rode in deeper water.

Since I often find myself anchoring in 50' of water, to get the 6-1 scope I'm putting out all my line -- which makes for a huge swing radius. When I don't have the room to swing (like at Anacapa's Landing Cove) I put out 4-1 scope and more chain. (Of course at Frenchys, you can anchor in 8' of water if you watch the tide)

I don't have a windlass -- and my boys are not quite big enough to lift the anchor yet -- so this is something I plan carefully before anchoring. But, unlike so many areas of life, in anchoring more is less. (More is less than you think) Not so much in absolute anchor weight -- but in chain and line.

Matt

[Lil Rascal]

Thanks for the replies. Tortuga, what size Bruce do you have? I am confused when you guys say you carry extra line?? If your anchor line is connected to the boat on one end and the anchor chain on the other, how do you connect the extra line? Do you have some sort of clip on the end of the line that is connected to the boat and then clip it to the extra line and tie that to the boat? Thanks,

Scott on Lil' Rascal

[Tortuga]

I have the 11 pound Bruce. With sufficient chain it does a great job in sandy or muddy bottoms. It does a poor job in heavy grass or kelp. Bending or tieing off additional line to an anchor rode is easy -- but you need a knot that will hold -- yet will be undoable. I use a sheet bend or double sheet bend.




(see http://www.uspowerboating.com/knots.htm but leave longer ends to your lines than in the pics)

That said, any knot used to extend an anchor line is a temporary extension -- and should not be assumed to be a permanent fix. Since I sometimes end up anchoring in very deep water (75') the longer rode is needed -- but this is rare. Good backup for when I can't get a mooring in Avalon or just want to come in for lunch.

Bob may have a different approach -- and I'll bow to his greater experience.

Matt

[journey on]

Please don't ask how I know, but MAKE SURE that one end of your anchor rode is tied to the boat. Or be prepared to dive.

You might remind yourself of this whenever you have someone new help you anchor.

Boris

[thataway]

If the boat has a windlass, I do a back splice with a small (1/8") line woven in, on a C Dory--that 1/8" line has a loop where it is woven in to the bitter end of the anchor line--and taken back and forth to an eye or board which keeps the end from leaving the anchor locker. If no windlass, there is either a simple eye splice or a thimble eye spliced into the line. If the other line has a thimble, it is then easy to shackle the two lines together. If there is just a large eye splice, then a sheet bend or bowline is tied and the ends are "moused" with light line, or a zip tie. If no splices, then two bowlines, intertwined as in a square knot--and mouse the ends. I would not depend on devices such as a carabiner clip to connect the ropes during an anchoring over night. For the most part my bow anchor rodes were long enough to be adequate for the depth. I would set the stern anchor first, and put the extra line on the stern anchor to run ahead and set the bower, then pull back.

I am not a advocate of the Bruce or Claw anchor--espec in S. Calif. I know that some are--and I would favor it more in the PNW.

If you are carrying a 13 lb Danforth, look more closely at the 12 lb High tensile Danforth (or West Marine Performance--which is an exact copy). The Hi Test Danforths are much stronger anchors, They are forged steel vs bent sheet, and and are sharper.

One of the advantages of the C Dory is that it can be anchored in very shoal water. But be a little cautious in S. Calif. there are peroids when large swells can come into any of the harbors--and the cause is often not clear. If the water is too shoal, then you have a chance being in the breaker line. I spent one night inside the at Coahes Prietos anchorage, where from the stern I could look right down at the sand as the waves broke under the counter--the boat surged back and forth like a rubber band, from the spring of the nylon lines--but the Danforth 12 HT and the 8 lb on the stern held all night--10,000 lb 29 foot sailboat. I have seen similar sets of seas occur at Catalina and on the North side of some of the other Islands.

[NORO LIM]

[Tortuga]

The story is often told in my family of the new and quite aggressive sand non-skid my father put down on his powerboat back in the early 1960s -- which he then proudly took to the Isthmus to show off his new deck. And, when the time came to anchor... failed to tie off the anchor line adequately. As he saw the line slip from the cleat he dove across the deck to grab it, successfully demonstrating that it is indeed possible to skid across non-skid (in a bathing suit of course)... but not before the bitter end slipped over the rail...

[toyman]

Is a Danforth S2000 (43#) OK for a 25" ?

[journey on]

Bob,
We anchored in Coches Prietos, which translates as Dark Hog, with a 25' sailboat (so I guess that's in the 80's.) Now people in the NW may not relate to this, but in SoCal, ALL anchorages are crowded on the weekend, and being the smallest boat, I get the spot closest to shore. Just like you, I remember low tide, right in the surf line. Wondering if the Danforth was going to hold, or alternatively, how we were going to get the boat off the beach. The Danforth held, and I now wonder why I tried anything else. Thanks for the memory and reminder.

Dave,
Indeed a Danforth S2000 will hold a C-25. And at the same time a C-22.

Boris