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Larry H



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill,

Since you are in the Puget Sound area, I will discuss fishing boats usually found here.

A gill net boat puts a floating net into the water. When the boat is deploying or recovering the net, the fish boat cannot maneuver to avoid collision.

A purse seiner deploys a net in a circle, closes the bottom of the net, and then pulls the net onboard. The purse seiner cannot maneuver to avoid collisions while performing this process.

A commercial crab boat drops and recovers a string of traps which are all hooked together. The crabber cannot maneuver while deploying or retrieving their traps.

A commercial trolling boat drags many lines thru the water, usually from outriggers. These boats can turn, but they cannot stop and reverse without pulling in the lines first. Also the lines are dragged at depths up to 20 or more fathoms, and it takes quite a while to recover the lines. As the weights are at the bottom of the lines, they cannot turn into shallower water without striking and hanging up on the bottom.

Even a C-Dory out shrimping can have gear at 200 to 300 feet down and recovering can take several minutes, during which, they cannot maneuver.

These are just a few of the many types of fishing boats and the type and gear varies from place to place and change over time.

The Rules have to be general enough to cover all the different types of boats. The intent is that the less maneuverable boat becomes the stand on vessel.

So it pays to learn what type of fish boats you might encounter in your area and stay away from them. I always try to stay away from working boats, as they are trying to make a living while we are out for our own pleasure.

_________________
Larry H

A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Ranger Tug 27 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2017 - 2022
Puget Trawler 37 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2006-2017
1991 22' Cruiser, 'Nancy H'--1991-2006
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NORO LIM



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 875
City/Region: Olympia
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 23 Venture
Vessel Name: NORO LIM (sold 12/12/14)
Photos: NORO LIM
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry,

Thanks for the very informative description of many of the types of fishing vessels and gear we commonly encounter. Really, it provides the best evidence for what the rule should be about. What matters is whether or not maneuverability is impaired, not what kind of gear it is, per se. I think the definition currently in the rules actually clouds the issue. The definition could have been shorter and clearer. Despite my original "questions," and despite the ambiguity of the definition, I'm pretty sure we both have identified what the rule is really after. Maybe parsing the words is a little extreme, but why give lawyers something to argue about when you don't have to?

I couldn't agree more that the important thing to know is what you're looking at when you see a boat. BTW, are the length restrictions on gill netters more generous in BC than here or in Alaska? I encountered some behemoths on the Inside Passage that caused a real mental disconnect for me. I couldn't reconcile what I was seeing with what I "knew" to be the size of a typical gill netter in Puget Sound or Alaska.

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Bill, Formerly on NORO LIM
2001 CD 16, 2001-2006
2006 CC 23, 2006-2014
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Larry H



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill,

Washington, Canada, and Alaska all have different fishing regs.

As I recall, most gill net boats are between 30 and 45 feet long, and have one or two crew. Alaska gillnet boats seem to be larger than WA or BC.

Seine boats can be from 45 to 60 feet long, and have from 5 to 7 or 8 crew. Seine boats have a large boom with a large pulley (actually a power block) at the end or top. Seine boats also carry or tow a 'net skiff' which is usually an aluminium boat about 20ft with a large diesel engine in WA and AK. In BC the net skiff is rowed during fishing and may have a small outboard (25hp).

There is also a 'combination' boat which can be either a gillnetter or troller. The boat is converted by removing the gillnet reel during the trolling season.

There is one more thing to complicate things. A 'Westcoast' troller is usually larger and works the outside of Vancouver Island.

I have found that observing the various fish boats is interesting both on the water and in the harbors. The fishermen and fisherwomen are 'rugged individualists' who succeed by their own efforts in sometimes hazardous situations and waters.
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Larry H



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photos of Alaska seine boats.



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Captains Cat



Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 7313
City/Region: Cod Creek>Potomac River>Chesapeake Bay
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Captain's Choice II
Photos: Captain's Cat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NORO LIM wrote:
Roger? Mary? Total shot in the dark, but does it have anything to do with ship to ship communication?


Nope, its a mnemonic used in plotting Maneuvering Board solutions. The Maneuvering Board is what conning officers used in plotting solutions to where their ship was going to be relative to others in a formation. It uses relative motion and vectors to do it and the R Vector always had to preceed the M Vector. Hence "Roger chases Mary". It's somewhat complicated but makes the solution of where a ship will be in a moving formation possible with great accuracy. I don't know if this is still taught in navigation classes but it sure was when I went through OCS in 1964!

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CHARLIE and PENNY CBRAT #100
Captain's Cat II 2005 22 Cruiser
Thataway (2006 TC255 - Sold Aug 2013)
Captain's Cat (2006 TC255 - Sold January 2012)
Captain's Kitten (1995 CD 16 Angler- Sold June 2010)
Captain's Choice (1994 CD 22 Cruiser- Sold Jun 2007)
Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
K4KBA
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great photos, Larry!

Last night was an incredibly bright moon... looking out at the water, the white decks of boats were clearly visible, two hours after sunset. What are the Rules regarding nav lights in this situation?
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Alyssa Jean



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2375
City/Region: Guemes Is.(Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Alyssa Jean
Photos: Anna Leigh and Alyssa Jean
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Last night was an incredibly bright moon... looking out at the water, the white decks of boats were clearly visible, two hours after sunset. What are the Rules regarding nav lights in this situation?


Rule 20
Light rules shall be complied with from sunrise to sunset and at all other times of restricted visibility. They may be displayed at other times if necessary.

Question: If you see a black conical shape pointy end down, what does it signify and where will you see it carried?

_________________
David and Kate

Alyssa Jean 16 Angler
Anna Leigh 22 Cruiser Sold 2005
Anna Leigh 25 Cruiser Sold 2014

K7KJR C-Brats #51
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anna Leigh wrote:
Quote:
Last night was an incredibly bright moon... looking out at the water, the white decks of boats were clearly visible, two hours after sunset. What are the Rules regarding nav lights in this situation?


Rule 20
Light rules shall be complied with from sunrise to sunset and at all other times of restricted visibility. They may be displayed at other times if necessary.

Question: If you see a black conical shape pointy end down, what does it signify and where will you see it carried?


Signifies a sailboat that is also motoring. It is to be carried "forward and where it can best be seen"; most often it will be flown from one of the spreaders.

Seeing how most of the sailboats we see in the PNW were motoring or motorsailing, the great majority are not following that rule. What is the size of vessel that is required to display that shape?
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Alyssa Jean



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2375
City/Region: Guemes Is.(Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Alyssa Jean
Photos: Anna Leigh and Alyssa Jean
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is the size of vessel that is required to display that shape?


A vessel of 12 Meters or less (39.5 ft) is not required to display that shape.
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since we've played; here's a shot I took today of a nav aid...



What's that little yellow triangle at the top of the red mean?

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Jim & Joan
CD-25 "Wild Blue" (sold August 2014)
http://captnjim.blogspot.com/

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SGIDave



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 228
City/Region: St. George Island
State or Province: FL
Vessel Name: Seadation - SOLD 09/2013
Photos: SeaDation
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Buoy with yellow triangle -- marks right side of channel when traveling the intracoastal waterway (south), and right side of channel when coming in from sea.

When looking at your nav chart you observe the red and green markers have letters/numbers next to them....one of the markers is labelled G "1" Fl G 4sec.
How do you read these characters and what do they tell you?

/david
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGIDave wrote:

When looking at your nav chart you observe the red and green markers have letters/numbers next to them....one of the markers is labelled G "1" Fl G 4sec.
How do you read these characters and what do they tell you?

/david


Green marker, has the number 1 on it, light flashes green once every 4 seconds.

What is the saying, "Even nuns get embarrassed" a memory jog for?
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Alyssa Jean



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2375
City/Region: Guemes Is.(Anacortes)
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: Alyssa Jean
Photos: Anna Leigh and Alyssa Jean
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is the saying, "Even nuns get embarrassed" a memory jog for?


Nun buoys are red and have even numbers.

Time for dinner, I'll have to come back with a question.
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JamesTXSD



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 7444
City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was some discussion a while back about small boats showing the right shapes or lights for their condition... it isn't just the big guys. Here's a boat about the size of our C-Dory we saw while out today...



What do the shapes on top of this boat tell us?
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eNORMous



Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 348
City/Region: Beaufort
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Antibody
Photos: Antibody
PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rule 27 of Inland & International Navigation Rules
Vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver—making way; vessel
less than 50 meters in length.

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