I was all set to go with a new 4-WD F-150 ...

[jennykatz]

We looked at the Ridgeline ,Tacoma ,Frontier all the mid-range trucks and SUV's. We ended up with the Honda Pilot same drivetrain as the Ridgeline fits in the garage better and will tow 16-22 easy . When we towed the Duck CD-22 we towed without H2O and very little fuel about 3800lb this was on a galv single axcel trailer with 90 suzuki. We now tow a cc--23 with with the Pilot on small outings no real long distance in florida flatlands towed weight is right at 4500lb no water and very little fuel 5-9 gallons on a tandem axcel alum. trl. If we end up towing all over we will upgrade the Honda but for under 4500lb its a Great all wheel drive vehicle

If you think you might go to a 23-25 cd get a tahoe or f150-250 or whatever make you like . If you are staying with a 19 or 22 then get the ridgeline Good luck in your Quest for the perfect tow vehicle

[wannabeowner2]

Thanks to all for your input. Due to waaaaay too many looming family issues we're not quite there on buying a C-Dory yet but want to purchase a vehicle for the future. (I doubt we'll ever have any C-Dory model larger than a 22' and most likely will wind up with a 16' in the beginning.)

It sounds like the Ridgeline may be what we want. I have a quote on a new 2008 RTS (mid trim level) at 22,468.00 (MSRP 31,060.00) out the lot cash price to me. The dealer says it had "minor hail damage" but has been repaired. Guess I better go look at it and actually drive one!

Thanks for the great C-Brat responses and advice.

Steve Toburen
King of the Lurkers

PS Any other ideas on Internet buying resources for cars? Especially Hondas?

[T.R. Bauer]

For those of you that constantly complain about the outsourcing of good American jobs, look in your driveway. If the car or truck says, Honda, Toyota, Nissan.........you think that might be part of the problem? I think so. But, in retrospect, at least your tow vehicle will match your outboard

[jennykatz]

You are right buying Honda's or Toyota's or any other foreign brand could be bad for our American economy . Most of the SUV and trucks we are talking about are made right here in the USA .Nissans built in TN.Honda's built in indiana ,Toyota's built in Texas. So we are supporting the American worker.If I do buy Japanese I look for the cars made in America.I'm waiting for the new diesels coming out of Detroit in 2010 the smaller maybe F-100's? with 4.2 Diesels not sure of the name yet.

I'm hoping that our 3 Auto makers can get it together and build cars that America wants and needs . like Hybrids ,diesels etc. 2010 looks like a good year for the American truck buyer .

[marvin4239]

[Sea Wolf]

[T.R. Bauer]

When you buy your Honda, Toyota, or whatever, do remember they are not part of the automakers union and those jobs from the those automakers pay substantially less, have fewer benefits, and a significantly reduced retirement. While they are decent jobs, don't be fooled into thinking they are jobs like we have at Ford, GM, and Chrysler; they are not. Furthermore, the profits (a substantial amount of $) go to another country and not here. I will not say that if you buy something from overseas that you are traitor, don't care about our own workers, or anything else because the choice is yours. Some other people really go off the deep end on that one..... Choice: that's whats great about America, and that is also our problem. Others have commented that it is getting harder and harder to even find things made in America. It is pretty clear to me why that one is - we aren't buying our own stuff anymore and it didn't used to be that way once upon a time......It is a shame.

[DaveS]

My twin Johnsons outboards are actually Suzukis.

[marvin4239]

Coming from someone who has worked in pretty much all the car plants as a Union construction worker the working conditions in the foreign plants was deplorable compared to the American plants. There is one Toyota Plant in California that is Union but all the rest are non-union. Nissan in TN was the worst. Toyota seems to always build union but the in house workers are non-union. The Mercedes Plant outside of Birmingham all the employees from Germany were Union and couldn't believe Americans would work without a Union. Sorry for getting so far off topic.

[journey on]

T, J. Bauer wrote:
"For those of you that constantly complain about the outsourcing of good American jobs, look in your driveway. If the car or truck says, Honda, Toyota, Nissan.........you think that might be part of the problem? I think so. But, in retrospect, at least your tow vehicle will match your outboard "

Funny you should say this. When we went to buy our last car (2005) I tried to buy a Chevvie. I figured I could keep that V-6 engine (made in Buffalo, New York,) running for years. When I ordered the car, it turned out that the engine was made in China, and the transmission was from Japan. So I bought a Toyota, more of it made in the USA than the Chevvie. And a better car. 3 years later, GM is now an importer, except for trucks. If you want cars from Mexico, China or Korea, buy a GM car. And they don't have to pay any benefits.

Boris

[dotnmarty]

Lots of good stuff here. A few years ago, after some bad health news, I said "the hell with it, I'm gonna own an American car before I die." So I bought a Ford. Suprisingly (and thankfully) both me and the Ford are doing just fine!

[localboy]

My $.02: I bought a used '05 Ford F-250 Super Duty earlier this year. So far it's a great truck. It's got some dings here and there and 40K miles, but I paid low Kelley Blue Book and it's a crew cab, short bed; perfect. Tows my 20' enclosed car hauler with my car inside like it's not even back there. It'll tow the '25 I still haven't bought too.

[Sea Wolf]

I lived and taught high school in Fremont, Ca, where GM had an auto plant that employed 7,500 workers, and down the road in Milpitas, Ford had a truck assembly plant with about the same size operation.

Now the Ford plant has been converted to a shopping mall, and the GM plant is a joint venture to build Toyotas between GM and Toyota with about 5000 workers, as I remember, at last count. They're now using the Japanese model of how to run a plant and manage employees, which is radically different than before.

Over the years, I was shocked over a couple of things about the GM plant's operation and GM in general:

1. For years they refused to recognize the threat posed by foreign auto makers, who were gradually making better and better quality cars compared to American brands. GM apparently thought they were so big and Americans so brand loyal that they would always be #1, no matter what they did, built, or sold.

2. Their design of cars after many years finally tried to catch up to the more economical, compact, and higher quality European and Japanese brands. This took 30 years or more, albeit with a couple of early efforts in the 60's in response to the VW/European import craze of the late 50's/early 60's.

3. They were forced to grant very generous wage contracts with the UAW (United Auto Workers) during several strikes. Workers wanted excellent wages, full benefits, and medical and retirement benefits for life. The last I heard a few years ago, was that GM, Ford, and Chrysler estimated their real employment costs (with all eventual benefits) were from about $65-$75 per hour per assembly line employee. Maintainence workers, who work on the equipment, make even higher wages, as do management.

4. There was a great deal of absenteeism, drinking and drugs on the job, and males and female employees were known to make whoopee in the parking lot at lunch break. Some of the stories my students told me would have to be edited out by Tyboo!

I have five vehicles, four of which are American, and one Japanese car, and have tried to support the American worker whenever I can, but the sad fact of life is that many of what used to be Third World underdeveloped/non-industrialized nations have come on line production wise, and we can't compete with their lower wage produced products, etc.

It's a sad fact of life that America as a manufacturing nation is gradually being supplanted and replaced by foreign competitors, except in high-tech industries where we still have an edge or don't allow competition (like for military contracts).

The world has changed, and so has America.

We might as well get used to it and figure out how to make the most of it.

Joe.

[marvin4239]

In keeping with the direction the topic has sort of drifted off to the following is a list of website that specialize in American Made Products.

Union Made Products
http://www.shopunionmade.org/

Union Label.org
http://www.unionlabel.org/

How to Buy American.com
http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/index.php

US Stuff com http://www.usstuff.com/

Made in the USA.org
http://www.madeinusa.org/

Still Made in the USA
http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/

Made in the USA.com
http://www.madeinusa.com/

[tsargent]

I have a 2000 Ford expedition I tow my 19 footer with. After a complete tune up (150000+ miles) it towed with no problems. Love that I barely feel the 19 behind me, but that's why we bought it... the boat size that is.

I've drawn a couple long hills here in the Uwharries with no loss of speed. Kicks down a gear or so, but moves along well.

When hauling the boat back prior to the tune up, I burned more than a tank of gas over the four and a half hour trip - one way. Taking the same trip to the NC Gathering - there and back plus a few miles, I used up just a hair over one tank. Tune ups are nice! At the price of gas a month ago, I figure I paid for half the cost of the tune up in one trip.