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timflan
Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 542 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Lucky Fish +1
Photos: Two Lucky Fish
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: How important is four-wheel-drive? |
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I've seen some slippery, steep ramps. Am I going to find my retrieval options limited (based on conditions/tide/incline) if I get a 2WD truck to tow my C-dory 22?
Or, I should say, will my options be MORE limited with 2WD compared to 4WD?
Thanks! _________________ Timothy R. R. Flanagan |
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Kent Richmond
Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 65 City/Region: Bayfield,
State or Province: WI
C-Dory Year: 1998
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Hunky Dory
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: How important is four wheel drive? |
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I tow my C-Dory with a Chevy Silverado 1500. More than enough power for towing, but when pulling it out of the water on a wet ramp, sometimes the wheels spin in 2 wheel drive. I got into the habit of putting it into 4 wheel drive before pulling the boat out of the water and have never had a problem. Even if I didn't live in a climate where 4 wheel drive is a necessity, I would have it. |
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snal
Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 524 City/Region: Asheville
State or Province: NC
C-Dory Year: 1994
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: Thelma Lou
Photos: Thelma Lou
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like you've answered your own question due to the slippery ramps, but I'll say that it's better to have it and not need it...than to need it and not have it.
I live in an area where you'd only really need 4wd a few times per year under normal non-towing conditions....resale value is still much better for the 4wd. _________________ Snal~
(Larry and Jo)
1994 C Dory 22 Angler (sold 2012)
Currently looking for a steal of a deal on a 25' "Thelma Lou II" |
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journey on
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 3595 City/Region: Valley Centre
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: journey on
Photos: Journey On
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Journey On has been launched on every type of paved ramp, from Spanish, Ontario, Canada to Long Beach, Ca. (to quote the worst.) We've never needed 4-wheel drive. Just be careful and slow pulling the boat out. Since I'm cranking the winch, Judy is driving and yanks her out and hasn't missed yet. With an automatic transmission, you can slowly apply power, and get it started without wheel slip. In fact, the latest truck doesn't have a locking differential, but never a problem getting her out.
Fortunately, we can launch Journey On without getting the rear wheels wet. In Spanish, the ramp was broken, and I had a 4-wheel ready just in case, but it came out easily. In Long Beach, there was sand on the ramp, but still easily came out. Haven't met a bad ramp in Washington from Bellingham to the Columbia River.
4-wheel drive is expensive and you have to haul it around when you're not using it. I've been going to the desert for 50 years, and never felt the need for it. Looks good though.
If you have it great, use it. I've seen guys smoke all 4 wheels on the ramp. Spectacular. And I've seen guys get stuck in the desert with 4-wheel drive.
Boris |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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If you're on a paved ramp and have 2wd and a limited slip differntial, you can usually tow most moderate loads out fairly easily.
However, change the 4500 lb CD-22 over to a 7500 lb CD-25, a heavier TomCat 255, or another 8000-9000 lb or more boat, add some sand, gravel, or ice on the ramp, and you better have 4wd, low range, a limited slip differential, and either a bag of cat liter or a set of snow chains to get up the hill.
I've launched my CD-22 in 18 inches of snow laid over a couple of inches of ice with chains and 2wd, but the steering and stopping are better with 4wd.
Stopping is always more difficult than towing a heavy boat, and steep downhill towing with a heavy boat can be the toughest part of all, depending on your trailer brakes.
Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous
Last edited by Sea Wolf on Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chester
Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1176 City/Region: home
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sold to lovely couple
Photos: Chester
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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With a 2wd tow rig some sort of traction assist would be desirable. Limited slip differentials are the most common. There are some selectable locking differentials on the market that are very helpful. Modern rigs with traction control possibly could help though they're usefullness under high throttle settings would have to be verified.
Then there is the poor man's limited slip option. Partially applying the parking brake can reduce one sided wheel spin though this only works when the parking brake is on the driven axle. Disgression is advised.
If you do go with 2wd consider carrying a tow strap and a clevis or two.
Last edited by Chester on Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Pat Anderson
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 8553 City/Region: Birch Bay, WA
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Daydream
Photos: Daydream and Crabby Lou
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Four wheel drive for sure... _________________
DAYDREAM - CD25 Cruiser
CRABBY LOU - CD16 Angler (sold 2020)
Pat & Patty Anderson, C-Brat #62!
http://daydreamsloop.blogspot.com
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20813 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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I have owned trailerable boats since 1957 and only owned one 4 wheel drive: the Honda Pilot (we use it occasionally on a sand ramp--but usually 2 wheel drive does well--and we are pulling the Century 18 footer), and never gotten stuck...I do carry some sand and a long dacron line, just in case I have to either put some sand under the wheels, or have to ask someone to give me some help. Having enough weight on the rear tires goes a long way toward helping. I have also had some cars with center differential lock.
As I am looking for a newer tow vehicle for the west coast, I am not looking at 4 wheel drive for the 25. I figure that if I get stuck, I can find someone who will help--or even pay a tow truck if necessary, for what I saved along the way... (I also carry a come along (2500 lb capacity) and long dacron line--I figure I can always put this on a deadman and slowly crank the rig up if I had to--I got a 2 1/2 ton truck out of the mud with this rig once. Slow, but works. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Bess-C
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 459 City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Bess-C
Photos: Bess-C
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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In most cases I think I could pull our boat up a ramp without 4 wheel drive. However, there are exceptions. We just got back from a trip to Tofino, B.C. The ramp there is steep, but it's nothing like the hill that you have to climb in order to get out of the Marina. It is almost too steep to climb up on foot. Last year I spun the tires on this hill while the transmission was in 4 wheel low range. I know I wouldn't have gotten up it without the 4 wheel low range, so I was glad to have it.
I don't think it is a necessity, but I sure like knowing that I can get out of most situations by myself.
Lyle _________________ Bess-C 25 C-Dory sold 6/09
Bessie 46 Westcoast 6/09
Baby Dory 14 C-Dory 3/11
17 Center Console C-Dory 10/16 |
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Wandering Sagebrush
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 2770 City/Region: Northeast Oregon
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Constant Craving
Photos: Constant Craving
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: 4wd - yes |
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Tim,
If you're planning on using your boat on ramps like Lyle described, or if you get onto a frosty one in the winter, a 4wd is pretty nice to have. Several times at low tide, I have found it necessary to use 4wd to keep the rear wheels from spinning on the slick stuff.
We have a F250 and an Expedition that both do the job.
Steve _________________ "And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." - Abraham Lincoln |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: Propbably |
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Tim Asked:
"....Am I going to find my retrieval options limited (based on conditions/tide/incline) if I get a 2WD truck to tow my C-dory 22?
Or, I should say, will my options be MORE limited with 2WD compared to 4WD?"
In a nutshell yes. Maybe not very often, but the important part here is that you do not want to find that you are at the bottom of the ramp and then you need the 4WD.
Good towing technique will help, but (yes, even here in Washington) there are ramps that at least occasionally require the extra assistance of the 4WD, (slippery gunk or sandy), and I'm probably not the only one here who has been the only guy on the ramp.
Harvey
SleepyC _________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7882 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Tim, Susan and I have done a lot of 4x4ing in the sierras, rubicon and the such, I never use 4x4 until I need it and I always have it to use. And once you have it you can always find a use for it too. All those dirt and rock roads that you glance at but never think about going up are now a challenge. a truck with out 4x4 is like a three legged horse, you can still ride it just not everywhere. _________________ Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12632 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: Agree |
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Tom, I agree:
Quote: | ...I never use 4x4 until I need it! |
It's great to get unstuck with. Just like a winch. Never use it to get into a place, only to get out of.
Harvey
SleepyC |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Another reason to have 4WD is to avoid getting stuck at low tide and then have the tide come in and flood the rear of your vehicle.
If you get stuck with 2WD and can't get up the ramp and then the tide comes in and floods the rear of your vehicle, you'll wish you'd sprung for he extra $$$ for 4WD. How would you like salt water in the back 1/2 or 2/3 rds of your car or truck? The electrical current and electrolysis on your wring can dissolve much of it in 30 minutes or so.
A word of caution: Some ramps, particularly those in salt water/tidal situations, stop abruptly. They just can't be paved easily like a lake that goes down in summer.
The result is a ramp that goes down smoothly, then suddenly stops, often having a 1-2 foot drop off into a mud hole that, once you drop an axle into, cannot be retrieved easily, even with 4WD. (You stand a much better chance with a tandem axle set up, at least if one axle is still on the pavement and you have 4WD..) IF YOU DROP YOUR TOW VEHICLE DRIVE WHEELS INTO THE HOLE AND CAN'T GET OUT, CALL A BIG TOW TRUCK IMMEDIATELY!
Such ramps are often marked with a a pole at the end of the ramp or a line painted on the side of the dock, with or without a sign explaining the marker's meaning.
ONE EXPERIENCE WITH SUCH A LAUNCH TRAP IS ALL YOU NEED TO CUE YOU IN FOR LIFE. Better off if someone can explain the situation to you beforehand.
Don't ask me how I know all of this. 'Twas 1972, as I remember.
Joe. |
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matt_unique
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 1881 City/Region: Boston
State or Province: MA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Napoleon
Photos: Napoleon
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: YES |
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Another vote for 4WD. In MA we have a 8-11' tide swing, and at low tide that translates into A LOT of ramp covered in growth that you can barely walk on in some spots, let alone try to pull a boat without 4WD.
If you always timed your retrieving at high tide, on a ramp with good traction, you might be able to get away with it without trouble. It seems that has worked for some but why risk it? _________________ Captain Matt
Former owner of Napoleon (Tomcat) Hull #65 w/Counter Rotating Suzuki 150's. |
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