Using the compass or not?

starcrafttom · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject:

old post being dredged up but I did not see one thing addressed. How many folks know how to use a compass and map??? I have not done so in a few years but do know how. Most dont and some how fell better that they have a back up map and compass on board. why? if you cant use it ? and as I always remind people , can you wife use a compass?? Susan needs to be trained on this more and I need a refreasher too. so look up from the computer and ask you wife/ other half if they can use a map and compass to A) find where they are and B) figure out how to get home.

on edit: if you lose the gps in the fog how are you going to figure out where you are?

rogerbum · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:22 am Post subject:

Well if my fixed mount GPS goes out, I revert to my handheld GPS. If that goes out, I revert to the GPS on my phone with the Navionics maps stored in memory. If none of the 3 of them work, I assume that we've been attacked by either the Russians or the Chinese and I keep on fishing until I die of radiation poisoning. In any case, I don't need paper charts or a compass.

Glacier · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: Never fly or boat without one.

We have seen folks lost with $5000 and up of nav gear on board. Never leave home without your chart, compass and time peice and a little common sense.

DoryLvr · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:46 am Post subject:

The recent NC Gathering was just beyond the area covered by the chip in my GPS. I wasn't about to buy a new $140 chip for a weekend. A compass and chart worked fine for the short little cruise I did. I ended up going on the long cruise with someone else just to try out a 22 since I hadn't been on one, but I would have been completely comfortable with just a chart and compass.

Doryman · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:10 am Post subject:

Also, I like to have paper charts along because they help give me the big picture at the same time the chartplotter is giving me the the details.

Warren

Pat Anderson · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:14 am Post subject:

If you can't see two identifiable things on shore to get bearings, how are you going to figure out where you are WITH a compass and a map??

Captains Cat · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:35 am Post subject:

If you, as every good sailor should, have plotted your last known good position (taken from a visual sighting, GPS or other means) on a chart near the helm, and have DR'd (Dead Reckoned) your current position from that (by plotting course lines with lengths that correspond to the speed you were going and all the course changes you have made), you have the best position you can possibly get after the fog sets in, without using Radar, Loran or RDF. If you have a depth sounder, you at least can approximate things from the depth you are in, if of course, you have said paper chart with depth contours on it.

If you don't have a chart, you are SOL.

Charlie

Charlie

jhayes1068 · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject:

Did I get the right information, that anytime you are running in Canadian waters you're required to have paper charts onboard? Rolling Eyes

Can't remember for sure! Jim

cbgale · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject:

If you leave the dock without compass, charts, dividers, parallel rule, and the basic ablities to use them, it won't make any difference how many chartplotters and backups you have when all else fails. If you are a responsible boater, you will use "all available means" to complete a safe trip. Situational awareness goes beyond the PS. IMHO, it is heresy to not be current in the use of basic nav equipment should all else fail. I'm not a Luddite, just believe in safe boating.

teflonmom · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject: Useing a compass or not

Our last C-Dory had a rather nice compass and I kept tract of variation and deviation. I was a member of the Power Squadron and they had navigation contests each year. The last year we competed we actually won. The other boats were larger a more stable in the rough Chesapeake chop.

I can navigate but my crew was a lot smarter than me. All I did was steer the boat on the course they wanted and at the speed we planned.

The compass was mounted above the V-Berth entrance.Standing in the isle gave me a good view and good sight lines. Bearings were taken with a hand bearing compass.

My next C-Dory will have a compass. For general cruising I used chart books as a back up for the GPS and to set way points.

rogerbum · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject:

How many can determine their position to with +/- 20-30' using a compass and just a chart? How many can do that with a GPS? (answers = none, everyone) If you have a functioning GPS with good charts loaded in memory AND a backup that runs off of batteries with the same the only reason for needing a compass is so you can tell what direction you're pointing when you're not moving or are moving very slowly. As for paper charts, I don't need 'em. Paper charts are most useful on my coffee table at home when I'm planning a trip.

I know I won't win this argument with everyone but modern day technology has made paper charts obsolete. GPS is WAY better especially when one is in a tight passage way and really need to know one's position relative to shoals or rocky areas. The key is to have redundancy built into all systems so that there are no single point failures that can cause you problems.

colobear · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject:

Roger, I absolutely agree that one should not depend on any navigation system with a single point of failure. That is why I do not put all my eggs in the GPS basket. My gps chartplotter is reliable as is my handheld gps but both are paperweights if the gps satellite data is gone. That is a single point of failure hence my paper charts and compass.

rogerbum · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject:

No - it's not a single point of failure. You only need 3 satellites to get a decent position and a typical lock situations is that you are receiving 6 or more at a time. I'm receiving 11 satellites right now on my phone in my bedroom.

As I said before if the entire GPS satellite system goes down, it's likely an indication of an attack from Russia or China and getting home is probably the least of my worries. It's more likely that either you or I will have both Honda 40's fail before the world wide GPS system will go down - yet I don't see any advocating that we put oar locks on our boats and carry 2-3 days of food so we can row back from 20 miles out.

starcrafttom · Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:13 am Post subject:

roger i agree that two separate gps systems have very little chance of failing at once. the idea of the whole satellite system going down is down right silly. but I still carry a compass and map. I have no doubt that my gps will only fail in area of no cell phone signal. Wink

I think more then half of the boat owners out there cant run their gps's past the first window and I beat if you walked a marina and ask 10 questions about plotting a course or reading a map 90% would fail ( including me).

I taught land nav in the corps a long time ago and was amazed how many people just did not get it or could not do it. I would need a refresher for land nav to and think i will give my self one soon.

I started to teach Susan one day on the water and by the time I explain the first part we were past where we were going. a lot easier to learn at a slow speed.