Anchor Drum Winch

[Donald Tyson]

Wow. I've seen these on Kayaks I believe. You a regular sophisticate. 500 feet takes a long time no matter what method you're using. Pretty cool though. I see why drums interest you. I thing that the LS winch is about 130'/min. But when it's up, it's up, nothing else to do.

[Punkin Drublic]

Earlier, Thataway mentioned adding shock absorb to a drum winch.

A solution for long term/overnight anchoring would be a couple of prusiks, run a snubber between them with slack of the mainline.

Cons would having to tie on the prusiks on the bow and part of the purpose of the drum is to not need to go on the bow. I don't believe a prusik would work on flat rode. All that said, you could, should, have the prusiks pre-tied ready to go and could maybe keep the snubber line in the bow anchor storage.

[thataway]

The Prusik knot will not work on steel cable or the synthetic lines like Dyneema. These are too slippery for any constrictor knot, including the Taut Line Hitch or other hitches, unless you put a bight into the line---but even then, it will not hold well. Of course, with chain, you would use a chain hook/plate.

[Donald Tyson]

That Kellet was a good thought though...

[thataway]

Kellet will work in light wind, and some waves, as will a heavy chain rode. When the wind gets to about 40 knots, the kellet or chain will not cause enough catenary to act as a shock absorber. I had a 40 lb lead pig with an eye bolt, that I drug around for years, and never found really effective, but I did have more conventional shock absorbing devices.

[Donald Tyson]

I'll figure it out. Ya know during the yrs I boated on the Barnegat with the 25 Macgregor (2500lbs), the Pierson Triton 7 or 8000 lbs and the 24'Carolina Skiff I never once wanted any type of snubber. Not sure these little 22's really need anything...but we'll see.

To that end, today I ordered the GX1 Drum winch and and the remote. Can't wait.....

[Punkin Drublic]

Just for fun, I asked Grok (AI on X) about shock absorption on a steel cable anchor rode.

Adding shock absorption to a steel cable anchor rode is a great idea to reduce stress on your boat and its anchoring system, especially in heavy seas. Steel cable is strong but lacks elasticity, so it transmits shock loads directly to the boat and anchor. Here are some practical solutions to introduce shock absorption:

1. **Add a Nylon Snubber**:
Attach a length of nylon rope (e.g., 3-strand or double-braid) as a snubber to your steel cable. Nylon is elastic and stretches under load, absorbing shock. You can connect the snubber to the cable using a chain hook, a shackle, or a rolling hitch knot, then secure the other end to a strong cleat on your boat. A snubber length of 10-20 feet is typical, but adjust based on your boat size and conditions—longer snubbers provide more stretch.

2. **Use a Bridle System**:
For added stability and shock absorption, rig a bridle with two nylon lines attached to the steel cable at one end (via a hook or shackle) and to separate cleats on your boat (e.g., port and starboard). This distributes the load and dampens pitching motion in rough seas.

3. **Incorporate a Mooring Compensator**:
A rubber mooring compensator or shock absorber (like those used in mooring lines) can be spliced or attached inline with a short nylon snubber. These devices twist or stretch to absorb sudden jerks. Look for heavy-duty models rated for your boat’s displacement and the cable’s working load.

4. **Hybrid Rode Approach**:
If feasible, consider transitioning part of your rode to chain or rope near the boat end. For example, attach 20-50 feet of nylon rope between the steel cable and your boat, keeping the steel cable closer to the anchor. This adds elasticity where it’s most needed while retaining the cable’s abrasion resistance near the seabed.

5. **Check Fittings and Chafe Protection**:
Whatever method you choose, ensure all connection points (shackles, hooks, etc.) are rated for the load and inspect them regularly. Use chafe guards (like fire hose or tubular webbing) on nylon lines where they pass through fairleads or over the bow roller to prevent wear.

A simple and effective starting point is the nylon snubber—say, 5/8-inch diameter for a mid-sized boat (adjust for your vessel’s size)—since it’s affordable, easy to rig, and widely proven. In heavy seas, it’ll stretch to soak up the surges while your steel cable handles the static load. Experiment with length and thickness to find what works best for your setup.

Anything specific about your boat or conditions you’d like me to factor in?

[Donald Tyson]

I'll be using very long dyneema so none of this snubber ideas using nylon line would work. But I'm thinking that the rubber compensator might be something to play with. It's worth trying.
Ironically, the winch dealer didn't have any ideas either for me. Have you ever used the rubber compensators? I've only seen them on large boats.

[thataway]

Obviously AI has not anchored with a cable. What size boat uses 5/8" as a snubber? Most likely way beyond the pay grade of most C Dory owners. Clue, it would be in the super yacht size.

[Donald Tyson]

It's funny to hear you say that Bob, about 5/8", and it is most accurate, but funny. My only in-depth experiences in "line" is with synthetic Nylon...a very narrow field. I knew folks who logged with cable only (no chain) and I've heard of people anchoring with Spectra. My father's era was still Manila for all uses, farming, towing, anchoring, mooring and lifting, and the hawsers were huge. Most of us using Nylon migrate towards what feels well in hand as that is also closer to the required size as well.
If you go by tensile strength alone you will find that for a CD22 size boat that 3.5mm Dyneema is all that is required, 4-5mm for a CD25, but there are other concerns beyond tensile strength alone. Wear resistance, shear moment and elasticity are at least a few of the other concerns.

Nylon, probably and most comfortably, handles all concerns as it relates to boater's needs. The only shortcoming seems to be with capacity. One can't hardly dedicate enough space onboard to hold enough for all applications in rigging and anchoring ( I realize this an overstatement for many, I apologize, but stick with me). When you go online and peek around, at charts and ratings from anchoring equipment suppliers, you discover some very interesting data that most of us ignore, that is rode size and tensile strength in Nylon line. As I said above with nylon we tend to grab our new rodes from sizes that feel comfy in our hands. If we took that method for big ship mooring it would brake. If we took that method with Dyneema we couldn't afford it ($$$). So I figured out what was really needed to anchor my little 22 with Nylon and it is less than 3/8". I would not have chosen that size due to lack of comfort in hand. Also we tend to feel moor comfortable with knowing out lifeline is oversize.
So when AI starts talking 5/8....I was thinking 5/16 for Nylon Snubber. Still though. This is a discussion and I'm glad we're having it, even if Grok was off base this time.
I just ordered a drum winch. ( would you still call it a drum 'windlass'?) For the 22 the manufacturer recommends that the main rode be 4mm Dyneema, with 8 meters of 6 or 8 meters of Dyneema and then, at the end, 20' of 1/4" chain. With this schedule you can get a lot of line onto that drum. I'm not sure just exactly what I'll feel comfy using. So for now I'll just put some shorter 1/2" on it.

[thataway]

One can stow plenty of 8 plait line (1/2" is selected because it "hands" easily.) The "Oversize" is to allow for chafing.

400 feet of 5/8" three strand nylon what what we used on the Cal 46 along with 200 feet of 5/16 HT chain. Most of the time when you anchor only with the chain, it is easy to put the "chain hook" on.

In the C Dory 22 we have put 300 feet of 8 plait, plus the 50 feet of 1/4" HT chain. That is plenty of rode for the East coast and on the Alaska coast/PNW Coast, you can usually get the C Dory into shallower water, and don't always need to anchor in 100 feet of water.

It will be interesting to see how the drum windlass works out for you. How are you going to put a snubber on the Dyneema? It has zero elasticity for all practical use. (3% at breaking point). Vs Nylon (1/2", 3 strand: braking Strength 5670#, SWL: 473#. has ~ 20% at 1/2 of breaking strength. This is why the nylon is the choice of small boats. Once you are the "yacht size"-many have significant size length of chain. Many yachts, especially power use all chain.

[Donald Tyson]

You ask great questions. My current main rode is a beautiful 195' x 1/2 8plait, I assume, with 6'x1/4"chain on the anchor. It looks untested and new. It belays very poorly out of that little deck pipe...whose idea was that? all knotted up and cranky-like as it laid for a long time in the chain locker since it was last used. Careless Idea that no arborist would have tried. Glad I pulled it all out to let it relax and dry.
For now I will put A shorter used line (1/2") onto the winch until the winch is full and that will have to do it for now. Probably only 75-100'
I'll figure out the Snubber issues.
You mention a term I'm not familiar with, it is "(3% at breaking point)". Is this referring to some sort of point load failure? Could you explain this?

[thataway]

3% elongation at breaking point. The % the material stretches when you are at breaking point. For example, I had a 45' racing boat in a partnership. One weekend the partner had an adverse wind full the spinnaker, and almost knocked the boat down on its beam as the wind changed direction and placed the spinnaker between the forestay and the mast. I saw that the rigging was slack on the upper stay port side from my apartment near the marina (with binoculars) when the boat was brought back into the marina. He had not realized that the 5/16 :: 1x19 cable had stretched about 5 inches--he was very lucky he did not loose the mast. We had the cable tested and it yielded (broke) at 12,500 lbs--the elongation was just before the cable would have broken. I don't have the calculations--but this is the same as the elongation--increased length due to the very high load. There was no elasticity, just yield and distortion.

[Donald Tyson]

Got it. Strong in length or compression but fast to shear.

[thataway]

Nothing to do with shear. Elongation is only length (and may reduce the diameter of any "cordage" as a side effect), Elongation is yield strength--but indirectly is also involved with elasticity--or the ability to recover the length after stretching.