Tire Wear

[Bill.Secure]

I just returned from the Annapolis Power Boat Show. While there we saw that Dave's Trailers of Glen Burnie was present and I recognized one of the staff at the booth. Dave's Trailers is an incredibly well thought of trailer dealer in our area.

I described the problem Bob had with his tires. He responded by pointing to the tires of some of the empty trailers on display and asked if I noticed the slight cantilevered effect where the tops of the tires were leaning slightly outward. I thought I could see this but it was barely discernable. He then said when you load the boat on the trailer, the weight is sufficient to eliminate the cantilevered effect and cause the tires to be vertical. He added that if the weight is too much for the trailer, the tires will cantilever such that the tops are leaning inward. That would cause the tire wear I had described to him.

He added he was quite sure the problem was not caused by the tires.

Bill
Edgewater, MD

[thataway]

Bill,
This sounds very logical--I am going to copy this and give it to the trailer dealer. I purchased thru a fellow who sells trailers on the side. The first one I purchased was built somewhere in S. Florida--probably an ACE. This one is a "Starlight" built locally. There is a torsion spring axel--and this cantaleaver effect is certainly critical--and putting on larger capacity tires might not rectify it.

Were these leaf spring axels or torsion springs at the ones at the boat show? Ovbiously there is a lot more to building a trailer than just attatching axels to alunimum I beams....

Regards,

Bob Austin

[Bill.Secure]

I didn't notice how his trailers were sprung. My trailer, a Load-Rite aluminum roller trailer, uses torsion springs. The specs on my trailer have it with a weight of 1200 pounds.

I'm a legend at Dave's Trailers having been rear ended towing the boat back from their shop last November. When that incident is described, they all know who I am.

It might well be they wouldn't mind giving you an opinion over the phone if that would be helpful. Dave's staff is all great but Dave himself is the soul of that shop. People come from as far away as Florida to buy their trailers there and then have the new trailer fitted to their boat.

Bill
Edgewater, MD

[thataway]

Me thinks I should have purchased my trailer at Dave's--and if I remember correctly Bill had suggested that. (unfortunately after I had ordered the trailer locally). I'll see how it plays out, and then start calling. I have the "ace in the hole" of taking the boat and trailer to Pacific Trailers in Dec. if I haven't solved the problem by then.

Thanks,

[thataway]

Photos of tires added to "Thataway" album--plus a few more of Powell.

[Casey]

Bob,

A few years ago we ran into a Very similar problem (uneven, hyper-tire-wear after only 5K miles). We checked with the trailer manufacturer and found that with tandem axle trailers, having the whole rig level was extremely important. (That...and using radial tires would greatly extend tire life.)

The rationale is that if the trailer is out-of-level by more than 1/2" overall, either the front axle tires or back axle tires will be unevenly/improperly loaded. I did some measurements (and changed to radials) and the problem has been solved.

The solution involved taking measurements of the trailer (both fore and aft end of the frame) until I could determine "level." (Yes, I used a contractor level as well, but found actual measurements to be more exact.) I then hooked-up the boat to the truck to recalculate the amount the tongue weight caused the truck to "squat." Using this data, I then was able to calculate how much of a "rise/drop" I needed in the hitch-coupler (ie. 2/3/4 inches) to bring the whole rig back to level WHEN LOADED ON THE TRUCK.

Easier to DO than describe.

I suspect this may very well solve your problem.

Best,
Casey
C-Dory Naknek

[thataway]

Casey--excellent idea. I have switched to radials. I suspect that the next hitch I get for my Excursion will be an adjustable one--not sure about 1/4" incriments though...I left my hitch with my son, and his truck is about an inch higher than mine (larger tires)--and it definately is closer to being level.

Of course one of the problems we ran into is that the truck/trailer were level when we got the hitch. Then we loaded the truck and trailer for a month trip--including an air compressor and generator, plus a lot of other boating gear which my son will use--and the truck rear came down another inch or so. (still had springs, but maybe air bags would help here, or an equalizer hitch, as Byrdman suggested).

Anyway the dealer picked up the tires today and they are going to the trailer builder and get his impression.

Good thoughts and thanks!

[flrockytop]

Bob, has there been a final conclusion on this?

Roger

[thataway]

Roger,
The trailer dealer (D K Trailers) in Pensacola, and builder in Milton's conclusion was that having the trailer out of level was the cause. It was only a few degrees. This next summer for the long road trip, there will be a level on the trailer tongue to be sure it is level when hooked up. I am getting an adjustable hitch.

The trailer is used weekly, but the distance which it is run in S. Calif. is only about 5 miles round trip. So far, no evidence of trailer tire wear--but this is not a valid test.

I probably will take the trailer to either Pacific or Trail-rite in S. Calif when I go back out there in March and get their opinion.

My local dealer was fairly responsive, but I think that since I was comparing several builders, that he may have speced lighter components than I should have had in retrospect. Of course the problem was compounded by my buying the trailer in Pensacola and leaving it in S. Calif.

[starcrafttom]

Ok guys see what you can make of this. I have a two axle trailer with 22 c-dory on it. Its three years old and has untold miles on it. Lots of trips to the san juans, several to the big c, twice to B.C. on the fairy, and lots to the local ramp. Only one tire, the front right(passanger) is almost bald. Now every time I pull the boat out of the drive way I have to turn to the left and go to the end of a cul-d-sac to turn around counter clock wise. so is their something wrong with the set up of the trailer or is that tire getting dragged more then the others? My next question is about balance. If I weight the tounge and find, as I suspect, that its a little front heavy. Should I move the boat and wench or should I move the axles?

[thataway]

Certainly two and three axel trailers do scuff tires--and you would have to look at the trailer as it is turning to see which tire is dragging the most. On the other hand, not much you can do about it, and I would just replace the tire.

Tongue weight should be about 7% of the total weight for a boat--5 to 10% are the range given. As long as the trailer is tracking well, and the rear of the truck is not overloaded, then the higher weights often give a better ride. (But it is very easy to overload the truck--with "stuff". Probably the best course is to weigh the entire rig, the trailer hitched to the truck, the trailer only and truck only on a scale. This will give you all of the information you need to know.

If you can move the boat/winch post, and not have it excessively overhang the bunks/rollers, that is certainly easier. I like for the trailer bunks to come to the edge of the transom Some trailer axels are easy to move, some are not. If the axels are just "U" bolted on, then they will be easy to move, but you need to be precise in the amount of movement on each side.

[Sea Wolf]

Tom-

I'm no trailer expert, but I've got plenty of time to spend today, so I'll give you my two cents, just for kicks!


Ok guys see what you can make of this. I have a two axle trailer with 22 c-dory on it. Its three years old and has untold miles on it. Lots of trips to the san juans, several to the big c, twice to B.C. on the fairy, and lots to the local ramp. Only one tire, the front right(passanger) is almost bald. Now every time I pull the boat out of the drive way I have to turn to the left and go to the end of a cul-d-sac to turn around counter clock wise. so is their something wrong with the set up of the trailer or is that tire getting dragged more then the others?

********

I don't think that left turn is doing the number on your bald tire, and an out of balance tire wouldn't wear evenly bald. Three things come to mind: The axle end may be bent on that tire, the brake system may somehow work that tire more than others, or that tire may have a slow leak that makes that tire soft and wear quicker.

I'd check the alignment by taking a 2 x 4 or something else straight and see if the sidewalls of the two tires on each side of the trailer touch evenly at axle height. Do you have regular axles with leaf springs or torsion bar suspension? The later might be easier to get out of alignment (?)

The easiest way to see if that brake caliper/rotor or shoe/drum is working harder would be to check the remaining brake lining. If it's working harder, the wear should be greater there than on the other wheels.

To check for a slow, perhaps undetected leak, all you'll have to do is check it more often.

**********

My next question is about balance. If I weight the tounge and find, as I suspect, that its a little front heavy. Should I move the boat and wench or should I move the axles?

*********

While it seems like either would work, I'd base my decision on how the boat fits on the bunks.

It's easier to move the boat back some on the bunks and slide the winch stand back accordingly, but I'd think it would be more important to make sure the boat fits as well as possible on the bunks (and center guide rollers). Also, you don't want to move the boat back so much that you hide the tail/brake lights from side view by others behind and to the side of you.

So if a little movement wouldn't negatively affect the considerations above, I'd simply move the boat and winch stand back, but if the boat needs to stay where it is on the trailer pretty much, then move the axles. This last task is a bit more complicated, as you have to be sure you keep them parallel with each other, etc.

If you have a roller trailer, much the same considerations would apply.

Right or wrong, this'll get you started at least!

See ya' and Susan in Seattle!

Joe.

[journey on]

Has anyone figured just how much to move the axles on a C-25 trailer, for instance, to balance it out? Would this be lbs/inch? I guess one could move the axles and then re-weigh the tongue weight, but how much should one start with?

Has anyone tried this?

Boris

[Sea Wolf]

Boris-

While it would be possible to calculate the approximate necessary change in boat position from an analysis of all the weights and dimensions involved, some advice from someone who has done this such as another C-Brat or a trailer dealer/manufacturer would seem as more practical way to do this.

One thing more to consider when moving the balance of the boat around to get the proper tongue weight to allow the best tracking would be to be sure the loads on the axles are very close to even.

This probably takes care of itself once the boat is loaded so that 5-10% of the weight is on the tongue and therefore 90-95% is on the axles, but it would be nice to weigh each axle independently to check it out.

The thing that also really affect this loading is the height of the trailer hitch and ball. Too high a trailer tongue causes weight transfer to the rear axle, and vis-a-vis, resulting in heavier tire wear on the overloaded axle.

The level on the trailer tongue is a great additional check to the whole system's workability.


Joe.

[Dora~Jean]

Boris,

About 4 yrs ago, my surge brake actuator was beginning to be affected by the heavy tongue weight setup by the trailer mfr. Actually it wasn't totally his fault, he had to estimate the tongue weight BEFORE the engines were put on, they played it safe by erring on the heavy tongue side.

My tongue weight was pushing 750 lbs. So I carefully measured each end of the axles to a common center point near the tongue. They were perfectly square as setup by Pacific. I then moved the axles back 12 inches, remeasured the tongue weight (at absolute level), and continued this 1 or 2 inches at a time. Stopped at 17 inches, it now weighs 450 lbs, brakes work very smooth now. That tongue weight is set as a worse case minimum it will experience: full tank of gas (minimum tongue weight since the tank is aft of the axles), no water (tank is in bow), no raft on bow, no ice chest up front, no gear, etc.

My most difficult problem was loosening the slightly rusty nuts from the frame hangers (even soaking overnight in WD40), ended up replacing about 1/4 of them.