Heaters and Stoves

[B~C]

Dusty, thanks for the input....I don't know which way to go.....I'd like the extra counter space I'd get with the #800 but would sure hate to spend a bunch of fun bucks and be disappointed.

A couple of questions for folks savy in the ways of the Wallas;

1) would it be better to have the #800 and run it on high most of the time... or.. run the 2 burner on low or Med? I'm thinking a person would have less problems with sooting by running the smaller stove on high....am I nuts?

2) What setting do folks most often run their Wallas stove at?

thanks

[Sawdust]

Ken,

I've used both the 2 burner and single burner Wallas guys -- love them both. They are pretty spendy up front, but I think you get what you pay for. Both models seem very sensitive to battery voltage during the start cycle, so I usually start the main engine first and then fire up the Wallas. Once the cabin is warm I normally turn down (both models) to 1 or 2 (low setting). Even on the Tomcat in Olympia (brrr) Les slept quite comfortably up in the berth area. There are a whole bunch of good alternatives to the Wallas, but they usually require a lot of installation work, and my installer is up to his eyeballs in work!!

I certainly hope the report of the defective 800 is unusual, and there are a bunch of satisfied Wallas users in our pub that have had absolutely no trouble. Good clean fuel, adequate voltage to start -- works for me. Easly to install, and a definite plus to the value of your CD when you upgrade to Tyboo Mike level. Give Les a buzz, Ken, because he works with these all the time and will tell you true.

Dusty

[Sea Wolf]

Dusty- Good advice! The Wallas heaters have, generally speaking, a fine record.

B-C: If I read into what you're asking correctly, you're asking if the smaller unit might be a better choice than the larger one because it would be running on a higher setting more of the time.

Indeed one of the most common problems with the Wallas and diesel units, in general, is sooting up over time, with the consequent inoperability. Most of the discussion concerning this problem indicates the best preventive is to run the unit one High for at least 5 minutes or more before shutdown in order to clear it out.

The logical implication is that the smaller unit would therefore stay cleaner by working in the higher operating ranges. My guess is that's you're probably right. Unfortunately, this issue has been clouded over somewhat and possibly confused with the great debate over the proper fuel selection, which seems to be settled for the most part.

The problems with questions like this where we're trying to compare two or more units, is that most of the time, each person only has experience with one heater, or or one windlass, one radar, one autopilot, etc. We all have our own experiences which are very worthwhile to share, of course, and this is where Les can be of great service with the broader perspective of more varied experience.

While we're discussing this, I'll mention that one of the problems in selecting a proper heater is to size it properly, which is directly related to your question. Ideally, a perfect heater would be able to operate continuously anywhere from zero to it's maximum BTU rating, without developing performance problems in the process. Rather than have a unit that constantly cycles on and off, putting extra stress on all the electric components, the battery, sooting itself up, and generally being a distraction, the infinitely adjustable output would allow the heater to just match the heat loss and maintain a constant temperature.

To my knowledge, no such unit exists. The nature of the diesel wick, diesel spray, propane burner, and other combustion systems all have a miniumum operating threshold. Diesel heaters soot up when run at lower temperatures, and propane heaters have to maintain a minimum to run the thermocouple and assure complete combustion, and operate within an efficent heat transfer range. The best advice is to get one that's not oversized and one that will operate more naturally in its most efficient mode.

Experience with electric heaters would indicate that the typical small space heater which has high and low settings of approximately 1600 and 750 watts, which are roughly equivalent to 6000 and 3000 btu's, seems to be able to accomodate the CD-22 Cruiser for commonly encountered conditions with it's termostatic control. To put a heater in a CD-22-C that operates on, say, a high/low range of either 12,000 or 6,000 btu's would seem to be asking the heater to cycle itself on and of constantly in moderate conditions.

These numbers would have to be sized up and down for the different D-Dorys. The CD-25 has about 50% more interior volume than the CD-22 Cruiser, the CD-16 Cruiser about 40% less, and the CD-22-Angler, about 20% less. Surface area of the cabin is probably more directly related to heat loss than volume , but these figures are probably close enough to get by with.

So you're very wise to look carefully at these two units and make every comparison possible to match your needs more exactly and to get the one the will operate the most trouble free. Heater selection is a $500-$2000 choice (including all installation parts), and worth doing carefully.

Sorry go drone on, but this subject is a complicated one, and very interesting to me. HTH. Joe.

[TyBoo]

[TyBoo]

Got a call from Scan Marine today saying my Wallas stove was done. They replaced the blower fan with the upgrade, replaced a piece of copper fuel pipe, and serviced the thing for $220. The guy also said he did a couple of other things that were no charge, but I had trouble understanding him. I am hoping that they send a written work description when they ship it back to me tomorrow. Whatever they did, it better be good for that much money. Sheesh - a guy could buy a lot of propane canisters at Costco for two hundred bucks.

Tim - How about your stove?

[Nainu]

Sea Wolf, I looked at the Force 10 stove, but in addition to an aversion to propane in a boat (I even use charcoal in my grill), the specs required a 30 or 36" flue as a minimum (apparently to maintain the draft). Since I carry my inflatable dingy on top, I could not have a flue pipe extending above the deck. Do you have 30" of flue? Did you consider the diesel/kerosene version? A friend with an older C-Dory had a Force 10 that worked very well for him, but he had an older Angler version with a seat behind the captain's seat and room for the longer flue.

I use the Toyoset stove/heater unit in my 22 Cruiser. I boat during the winter in Alaska which is a pretty serious test of a heater, and I have been happy with it. I would suggest that anyone traveling to a remote area in the serious cold (below freezing as a high temperature) where you will have a difficult time finding help, buy a 1 KW Yamaha generator. Weighs only 27 pounds and can save your bacon if you run down your batteries overnight with the heater on. I discovered batteries don't seem to hold as good a charge at 15 degrees, as in warmer weather, and was glad to have brought mine along.

[Adeline]

Hi all, I agree with Nainu. I have the Wallas 100u stove/heater that I run for days on end. I also run 2 electric Canon downriggers. Even with 2 batteries(Group 24 starting,group 30 house) things can get run down. I got the Yamaha 1000 inverter generator to keep things energized. Additionally, it runs my Sharp "Half Pint" microwave oven which sits inside the icebox(door removed). It sure makes meals quick and easy. Pete

[Sea Wolf]

Nainu: No, I didn't consider the diesel version of the Cozy Cabin heater, primarily because I already had propane installed for the 3 burner Wedgewood cooking stove.

I know propane can be problematic, but I've been around it for years in RV's and feel pretty comfortable with it. Just have to be vigilant, and have the right detectors for the propane itself and the carbon monoxide hazard, which is a lot worse around gas engines than propane stoves.

I, too, have a 1000 watt generator for longer trips further away from the marinas that I use to back up the batteries. Your temperatures do a lot more to reduce the capacity and voltage of battrties than the more moderate ones down here in northern California. Ever notice how much fluoresent lights drop off in intensity at very low temperatures?

I can only get about 20 inches of flue without going above the cabin. I've never set the propane or carbon monoxide alarm off, but there is a very slight odor of burned gas (just like you'd have in your house with the kitchen stove on) that you can smell when it's been on high for awhile and you come in from outside. If you're in the cabin, you don't notice it. Since I run the heater on low after initial warm up, the odor goes away and doesn't return.

If I had to run the heater on high most of the time, I'd either extend the exhaust tube the extra 10 inches or so above the roof, or exchange the "witch's hat" exhaust cap to something else to relieve the back pressure caused by the restricted opening and forced momentary reversed flow that are inherent in the cap's design. Joe.

[Nainu]

Sea wolf, you located yours in about the same place I had considered for the Force 10 in my boat. Where do you have the propane tank (in a bracket on the outside of the cabin bulkhead?). Inside worried me and keeping the tanks from rusting up on the outside seemed problematic. I could not figure out a means of making a compartment for the tank that could be vented overboard.

Adeline, I have a couple of Canons also. I just hate it when I am catching so many fish that I wear my batteries out running them up and down (grin). I have three deep cells in my boat, but when the silvers are biting down at 70 feet by the end of the day my batteries can get pretty well gone, especially with the heater, fishfinder, radio, gps, fan, cell phone, washdown pump and bilge pump in use. Not sure how many watts the alternators put out while trolling, but it is not much.

[Lynn Marie]

Like TyBoo Mike I got a call from Scan Marine that my Wallas was all fixed up, checked out, and ready to go. I was a little luckier since my bill was only $155. Since my fan was making a terrible screeching noise, fixing it most likely kept something else more serious from happening down the road. I have heard that this can lead to computer chips and the like blowing out which is a very expensive fix. Don't like to spend that much but if it takes care of the stove and makes Judy happy then they didn't charge what it's worth to this pleased skipper.
The stove really has worked well since we got the boat over a year ago and it just seemed like a tune-up for the Wallas was as important as the spring check out of the Hondas. Keeping ALL systems in proper working order is just part of boating in my mind. Maybe after I finish boat remodel work I'll be more willing to do just maintenance.
Anyway I do love the Wallas.

Tim

[digger]

Hi Folks, Digger on Snoopy-C replying late on the Wallas 1300. It is in the Snoopy-C file, 2nd page photos. It fits neatly behind the Origo stove. It intakes fresh air through the stack, and exhausts through the same route-- double wall stack. Ron

[Sea Wolf]

Nainu- The propane tank is mounted in the motor well. There's a photo in the Cabin and Interior section somewhat after the photos of my heater as the photo was added later. Any leaks with the tank in the well will result in the propane going overboard through the drain holes , not accumulating in the cockpit or cabin.

For rust protection, paint the tank and the RV mounting bracket with epoxy paint (spray can for convenience) and just refill the same tank over and over. I have to replace my tank when it's empty because it doesn't have the newer required overfill protection device. It was painted with just enamel paint. Joe.

[Rock-C]

Just a thought I was considering propane heat on our boat. A logical location seems to be the lazeret / fish well on the port side. There is a drain fitting already that a hose could be fitted to. The other end being a through hull fitting into the motor well. This would drain any leak to the motor well and overboard. There are small steel and aluminum tanks that would fit in this small space.

[B~C]

Where do the Coast Guard requirements for a vented propane tank locker with a shutoff valve fit in? are our boats to small for that requirement?

[Larry H]

Rock-C,

We use the port lazarette for our propane storage. Pretty much as you describe it. This has been working since 1991.

Larry