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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4673
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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 Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ssobol wrote: | | Hunkydory wrote: | | ... Personally, I favor freedom of choice with very few restrictions of what one can choose to do, as long as the hazards involved are known. ... |
I generally agree with your statement as long as the consequences of failure only affect the person(s) who willingly choose to participate. When you put non-participants or even your rescuers (or maybe recovery personnel) in potential harm you have overstepped this limit and the choice of what is acceptable risk is no longer solely yours to make. |
Amen. There is also the financial cost of stupid, to society. Do you know how many people my dept has to search for and/or save because they went into the mountains unprepared, out of shape and with zero knowledge or experience or preparation? Same goes for The Sound and the lakes.
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"We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
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Foggy
Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 1579
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Boatless in Boating Paradise
Photos: W B Nod
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| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Second thoughts.
Saying, even thinking, "people are dumb" is a gross misjudgment and
generalization. It is more a reflection on the sayer, or thinker, than the
"dumb person". It is being judgmental without knowing the total person being
judged; merely a moment's snapshot of the person unless you know them well.
That "dumb person" might be able to sit at a piano and play Bach or Mozart well
enough to make tears come to your eyes.
It's said, "We don't see the world the way it is. We see it as we are." This can apply
to how we see others. Thus, saying "They're a bunch of dumb xxxxx's" is really
saying something about yourself. It has nothing to do with who you are talking
about.
Of course, the antidote to judgmental thinking is being respectful to everyone.
Sometimes, it's not easy. Most worthwhile endeavors are not.
Aye.
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Keep an open mind just enough to not let your brain fall out. |
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dotnmarty
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 4209
City/Region: Sammamish
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: LIZZIE II
Photos: Lizzie
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Foggy wrote: | Second thoughts.
Saying, even thinking, "people are dumb" is a gross misjudgment and
generalization. It is more a reflection on the sayer, or thinker, than the
"dumb person". It is being judgmental without knowing the total person being
judged; merely a moment's snapshot of the person unless you know them well.
That "dumb person" might be able to sit at a piano and play Bach or Mozart well
enough to make tears come to your eyes.
It's said, "We don't see the world the way it is. We see it as we are." This can apply
to how we see others. Thus, saying "They're a bunch of dumb xxxxx's" is really
saying something about yourself. It has nothing to do with who you are talking
about.
Of course, the antidote to judgmental thinking is being respectful to everyone.
Sometimes, it's not easy. Most worthwhile endeavors are not.
Aye. |
Mozel tov Mr. Foggy !
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MartyP
"...we're all in the same boat..." |
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Foggy
Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 1579
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Boatless in Boating Paradise
Photos: W B Nod
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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L'Chaim MartyP!
Aye. |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4673
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Foggy wrote: |
Saying, even thinking, "people are dumb" is a gross misjudgment and
generalization. It is more a reflection on the sayer, or thinker, than the
"dumb person".
Aye. |
In my line of work, it's factual. |
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hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 12637
City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:32 am Post subject: |
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foggy, I like this line of thinking
| Quote: | "Of course, the antidote to judgmental thinking is being respectful to everyone.
Sometimes, it's not easy. Most worthwhile endeavors are not.
Aye. |
I have seen lots of "stupid" and often, you can't get one thread of common sense into that head, but it is always worth a try. I have seen life lost and have help in some successful rescues, and I have had the privilege of turning "stupid" around on some occasions and hopefully affected some incident specific education and some general practice planning tips that I hope have been carried on past a 10 foot perimeter.
I ran across 2 very experience and prepared sea kayaker's several miles off the NW corner of Vancouver Island. They were returning from a run out to Pine Island lighthouse, about 5 miles from Hope Island. They were fine, thanked me for checking and off I went after confirming there preparedness. These 2 were not stupid, but I would probably not find myself in their situation now. Maybe some years ago, but not any more.
I helped a guy decide not to launch at John Wayne to go halibut fishing when the winds were blowing 40 and the Strait was under high wind warning with 6 foot waves. There were 4 footers and mostly whitecaps inside the bay and he had an open 16 foot aluminum boat. It was going to be his and his wife's first time out for halibut and second time out in the boat. He wasn't stupid, he was ignorant. AND he was accepting of some common sense, some local knowledge, and a lifetime of experience.
Then there was stupid. 3 guys on a 23 foot, no name sailboat, wanting to go from Port Townsend to Victoria, with a AAA road map, no radio, didn't know if there were working lights on the vessel, it had an OB kicker, but no gas, ("because it is a sail boat, we wont need any gas") and didn't know they would have to check in with customs, so no passports. They did not understand "No, don"t do it, for a dozen reasons, --> lack of experience, training, preparedness, paper work, less than a marginal vessel, and .....
They thought they could still do it and off they went. A marine patrol boat blue lighted them before they got to Point Wilson. I suspect they were turned around officially. Stupid averted .... for one more day anyway.
We have seen it all, I'm sure, and it will continue to happen, but hopefully less often and with less serious consequences. Some of us see it more often and it is hard to believe there are so many that fit the category. Most of us, I hope, are many notches above and are smart enough to learn without becoming a casualty.
Harvey
SleepyC
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Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
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jbdba01
Joined: 18 Nov 2014
Posts: 172
State or Province: FL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Foggy wrote: | Second thoughts.
Saying, even thinking, "people are dumb" is a gross misjudgment and
generalization. It is more a reflection on the sayer, or thinker, than the
"dumb person". It is being judgmental without knowing the total person being
judged; merely a moment's snapshot of the person unless you know them well.
That "dumb person" might be able to sit at a piano and play Bach or Mozart well
enough to make tears come to your eyes.
It's said, "We don't see the world the way it is. We see it as we are." This can apply
to how we see others. Thus, saying "They're a bunch of dumb xxxxx's" is really
saying something about yourself. It has nothing to do with who you are talking
about.
Of course, the antidote to judgmental thinking is being respectful to everyone.
Sometimes, it's not easy. Most worthwhile endeavors are not.
Aye. |
I watched a bunch of people go swimming in their own chum slick from a chum bag (not to mention mine) at the Skyway Bridge at slack tide (lots of HUGE Bullsharks there). Seems the girls had to go to the bathroom.
I looked over at my son and said "Those people are idiots. " Never gave it much thought that they might be creative in any way. Just lump summed them into one broad category of stupidity. I guess the smart one was hanging on to the side of the boat. The dumb ones were holding onto to a rope about 20' off the stern. Almost looked like a supersized bobber and line.
I believe I followed my comment up with something like "Don't let me ever catch you doing something that stupid."
Darwin's Law of evolution did not play out that day, but they sure were testing it.
Looking back on it I'm still good with what I said. Nothing wrong with pointing out to your kid that there are stupid people in this world and don't be one of them. |
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Foggy
Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 1579
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Boatless in Boating Paradise
Photos: W B Nod
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: |
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From the above, some get it, some don't.
And that's OK.
Aye. |
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chromer
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 958
City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Photos: Checkpoint II
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7932
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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So i went duck hunting yesterday near stannwood. Wind was blowing a solid 40 and gusting to 60 a few times. Was pulling my goose decoys out of the ground. They are anchored into the ground on a 3 ft long rod. Several times I was almost pushed off my ft and we were not in the direct wind but behind a berm.
Coast guard had to rescue two sailboarder off the water at kayak point just south of us. It was a 4 to 6 ft short spaced chop. IF that is not stupid I just do not know what is. Complete morons. Its not even lack of information. You can stand there at the waters edge and Go "f this its blowing 60 mph"
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Foggy
Joined: 01 Aug 2013
Posts: 1579
City/Region: Traverse City; Northern Lake Michigan
State or Province: MI
C-Dory Year: 2014
C-Dory Model: 26 Venture
Vessel Name: Boatless in Boating Paradise
Photos: W B Nod
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Visit The Gorge near Portland, OR to see myriads of stupid sailboarders
sailing in winds funneling thru the mountains at well over 60mph.
BTW they look like they're flying, having the time of their lives.
Aye.
Grandpa used to say, "One man's pleasure is another man's pain." |
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Pacificcoast101
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 727
City/Region: Torrance
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: No Pressure
Photos: No Pressure
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AstoriaDave
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 994
City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Couple young guys down here regularly fly their kiteboards (basically a snowboard set up to run on the water, with a serious parasail and bombproof harness on the body, controllable using the shrouds) on the Clatsop Beach, sometimes in surf, sometimes in the major backwater inside Trestle Bay. They appear to be in control up to windspeeds of about 30 knots, ramping down to sails of smaller area as the wind rises, primarily operating at the water's edge and sometimes in 4 foot surf, max.
These guys are extremely strong, very fit, and very safety conscious. Even so, they are very aware of the risk, and are quick to shut down when conditions get out of hand. And, it is an easy swim and easy retrieval if they crash.
In contrast, off Manzanita, from the Neahkanie Mtn overlook on 101, you can spot guys using similar rigs, running inside, through, and outside the surf zone, out a long quarter mile or more, onshore winds. With a long swim to shore, no way can they retrieve a sailrig if they crash. No Waverunner patrol. Nothing. Freaking nuts!
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Dave Kruger
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21354
City/Region: Pensacola
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C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Foggy wrote: | Visit The Gorge near Portland, OR to see myriads of stupid sailboarders
sailing in winds funneling thru the mountains at well over 60mph. |
I question that "myriads" of either windsurfers or kite boarders sail in winds of 60 mph. It the very rare individual that can succeed to either kite board or wind surf in winds of this velocity. Plus winds of this velocity are rare in the Columbia River Gorge.
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Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
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Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
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Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Pacificcoast101
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 727
City/Region: Torrance
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Photos: No Pressure
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