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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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 Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the details on your brake switch wire (caveats noted).
| Dora~Jean wrote: | | Using "engine braking" or applying the tow vehicle brakes is really the same thing to surge brakes on a trailer. The tow vehicle is pushing back on the trailer, thus engaging the surge brakes. |
Is that really true? When I have used engine braking with my surge-braked rig on a long downhill pass, then pulled over to check on my hubs at the bottom, they are not particularly hot. I imagine (but don't know as I have never done it) that if I actively used my brake pedal (say at the top of a hill, which is where I am careful not to), that *would* engage the trailer brakes, which would then never have a "reason" to disengage (due to gravity/pressure), and that then my hubs (and brakes) *would* be quite hot at the bottom of a long pass.
Is it possible that some actuators are more or less sensitive than others? What I'm saying above is that I've always thought that due to the very gradual nature of my engine braking it is not engaging the surge brakes. Thus the tow vehicle engine braking is doing the work (I will occasionally tap the brake pedal if I have to, but try to do it in such a way that I think the coupler will not "know" that I'm even doing it).
I think I understand that the surge brakes work essentially by the trailer "coming ahead" faster than the vehicle is moving and thus engaging via pressure between the hitch ball and the coupler.
Basically, this has been the one thing I think I would like better about EOH, even though so far I've been fine with the surge brakes. That is that I tend to enter downhill passes at a slower rate due to wanting the "feathering" action that will not engage my surge brakes. I am careful to watch traffic behind me so that I don't mess anyone else up. With EOH I would feel free to enter a downhill pass slightly faster (within reason of course!), because I wouldn't be "not trying" to engage my trailer brakes. |
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AstoriaDave
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 994
City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Sunbeam,
The manual for my EZLoader surge brake equipped trailer specifically warned about use of engine braking on steep downhill grades. Like you, I never noticed any overheating when I tried engine braking, short downhill runs. However, the surge brake actuator does not know whether the pushback from the towing vehicle comes from use of its hydraulic brakes or from engine braking. On a very steep downhill shot, I think mine would be activated.
I expect the surge brakes on my trailer are not activated by the low pushback forces I have generated ... and, yes, that is a function of the setup/actuater or whatever you want to call it.
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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| AstoriaDave wrote: | Sunbeam,
The manual for my EZLoader surge brake equipped trailer specifically warned about use of engine braking on steep downhill grades. |
That's interesting. Did they say why they were warning against it? I find that if I understand the base principle, I can then figure out if it applies to me or not. Not that I am immune to physics, but sometimes I find that the caveat doesn't apply to me and/or is written generally for people who don't care to think about specifics. For example, if they are talking about engine or transmission overheating, well then I know whether or not that is happening on my rig because I run a Scangauge and watch it like a hawk (so far engine braking has not influenced engine or transmission temps, and I also haven't arrived at the bottom of a hill with "burning" hubs).
I realize you didn't write the manual... just curious if they said anything more about whey they were telling you not to use engine braking. That goes against most advice I've read.
I am guessing that my engine braking is "subtle" enough that the trailer doesn't come up against the coupler hard enough to engage the surge brakes, although I guess if they are not overheating it's fine either way. If/when the surge brakes seem like too much trouble or a liability, I'll switch to EOH. I actually intended to put on EOH at the start, but the trailer shop had never done it and didn't sound too confident, so I decided to take my first cross-country trip with the surge brakes, and then have the EOH added in Washington, where surely they would have experience with them (thank goodness as I had to re-do everything that shop had done!). After that trip I felt that the surge brakes worked fine (with the aforementioned conservative driving at the tops of long downgrades), so EOH are on the "back burner" for now.
Sunbeam |
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AstoriaDave
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 994
City/Region: Astoria
State or Province: OR
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Sunbeam,
The manual explained the warning was there to avoid burning up the brakes, because of constant contact. Exactly the concern we have been discussing. As I said, I have never experienced a problem, using engine braking on downgrades. Never noticed the surge brakes coming on under those circumstances. I believe with my vehicle, trailer, and load, the problem is a nonstarter. Would take much steeper grade and likely locking the tranny into first gear. |
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Sunbeam
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 3990
City/Region: Out 'n' About
State or Province: Other
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Sunbeam
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the additional info. I don't think I've experienced that either, but as you say, I suppose if one engine-braked "dramatically," then it would be no different than applying the service brakes in terms of force on the coupler, and would thus engage the trailer brakes (meanwhile the innocent driver thinking they had not applied the brakes so all was well). Probably you and I are similarly "feathering" things and so not experiencing that.
If I had a 25 (or a lighter-duty tow vehicle), I'd probably go EOH as a matter of course; for now, and with my rig, I'm happy keeping the 22 a bit simpler.
Sunbeam |
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