Significant water under cockpit floor on 07 CD-25: Normal ?

[Ron on Meander]

Just screwed into the lid. I didn't do it myself the dealer did.I can't tell if they also used some 5200 or not but the screws have held for over a year now and they don't seem to be loose. The hatch lid sure doesn't leak much now. When I took the pictures today it had been raining (still is!) buckets. I have about 1 inch of water standing over the port hatch because of the slope the boat is on and its not leaking through to the bilge.
You can also check out how Hank on SeaSkipper did a truss arrangement on his.
Hanks Hatch

[Bill.Secure]

Ron - thanks ever so much for all the info and pictures. Were it not for helpful folks like you on this site, I don't have a clue as to how I'd get the information I needed.

I'll do a bit of research to see if 5200 will bond to aluminum. If it does, I'll go with L shaped aluminum angle, screws and 5200 adhesive. I'll let everyone know the results.

Adding to my concern, when I went down to the marina this morning, one of the boats was on its side and half full of water. A 150hp Suzuki outboard was under water. This is a picture I don't ever want to star in. Apparantly the bilge pump had become inoperable.

Bill

[Sarge]

Ron,

Yes, a big thank you to you for posting the pictures and answering questions.

Has anyone tried Gorilla Glue on his/her boat? I own a teardrop trailer and the guys who build them swear by this stuff. I noticed it is listed in West Marine's catalog as gluing anything together. I ask because I was thinking of attaching the aluminum angle with Gorilla Glue.

BTW, I heard that you DO NOT want to get this stuff on your hands unless you don't want to use them for a while.

Great discussion. Thanks everyone.

-Sarge

[Sea Skipper]

The long CD25 deck hatchs (at least on my boat) were designed with the hinges located fairly close to each other and a single catch on the opposite side. This allows the ends to easily flex upwards resulting in a very poor seal. A brace or truss will improve the situation and should be designed to bow the ends of the hatch slightly downward about 1/16". The hatch will flatten out when dogged closed creating a uniform seal. A custom truss can be made as per Sea Skipper with the spacer band sawn in a slight curve, or a thin piece of packing material could be placed under the center of an angle aluminum support to accomplish the same task. Also locating the brace more towards the front or catch side will result in a more uniform pressure distribution. The brace should be glued (epoxy or equivalent - not 5200 which allows some movement) to the bottom the hatch with screws to hold in place - the hatch is cored fiberglass construction and the bottom layer is not thick enough for for long term screw only support.

Inspect the hatch gasket material - on my boat this rubber edging gasket was glued hit and miss with some kind of plastic glue which allowed water to leak between the gasket & deck where not glued. Also a small dab of silicone might be appropriate where the cut ends of the gasket come together.

[Sarge]

Hank,

I looked at your photo album. That's not a CD25...it's a space shuttle made to look like a CD25! It's set up nicer than my home and I think I've seen fewer gauges in the cockpit of a 747 than at your helm. You certainly don't go half-way.

When I get my CD25 I plan on modifying the hatches, but I'll hide the photos of my half-@ssed work way back in my photo album

Thanks for sharing and showing me what is capable with a CD25.

-Sarge

[Bill.Secure]

Just got my CD-25 back yesterday from Cutter after the 20hr service and some warranty work.

Their solution to the leaking hatches was to "grind down the hatch covers" to improve the way they fit. The surface area ground was several inches around much of the perimeter of the covers. I'll see how this solution stands the test of time and rain and report back.

Cutter hadn't been aware of this problem. They looked at another 2007 CD-25 on their lot and realized it was going to be a systemic problem on all of the CD-25s of that vintage.

I forwarded them pictures of the Meander's hatch covers so they'd have another solution in their repair arsenal if needed. I felt I needed to have the leakage addressed under warranty first before I made changes that would have caused the problem to be completely mine.

Bill
Edgewater, MD

[Dan Tracy]

[Bill.Secure]

I've been there and suffered with the same problem. Part of the problem is scupper size but the larger problem is the installed check valves. See the following thread:

"Scupper Check Valves on CD-25"

It will describe the problem I was having with water in the cockpit and how I removed the flappers in the check valves to permit water to exit the scuppers and flow out of the cockpit.

Bill
Edgewater, MD

[Dan Tracy]

Thanks for the prompt response, Bill.

Very interesting thread. I think I will do as you did: remove the check valves and test to see if any water comes into the cockpit while underway.

Dan

[seahooked]

On a prior thread I mentioned my plans to check to ensure that all the bilge and bracket screws directly into the hull beneath the cockpit floor were installed with sealant. In order to do this the area must be dry. I don't think this has every been dry in my boat so fixing the two leaking hatches in the floor becomes the first priority.

Yesterday I was on the boat and took some measurements of the hatches to order some aluminum angle (I was leaning towards building a stiff rectangular bracket for each), and noticed both hatches were warped about 1/8" end to end. Also, the hatch itself appeared very stiff. I have concerns that anything short of bolting completely through the hatch to support the bracket will work at a long term solution.

A different approach is to leave the distortion in the hatch alone and build up the material under the hatch around the seal until this bottom surface is flat. Any thoughts?

Are others seeing actual flexing of the hatches or are they warped like mine? You guys that have implemented solutions- are they holding up ok and would you do anything differently based on your experiences?
Thanks,

[thataway]

My own past experiences with the 6" round port screw in type of hatches is that they work well (if not you can get bronze ones, with "O" rings and a finer thread which do). As for larger hatches--short of buying commercial type of dogged water proof hatches, (Often made of alunimum) I have never been able to have a truely water tight hatch. Will the building up, make it more likely that you will trip or stumble on the hatch? (Of course these is always the option of building up the entire hatch support rim 1/4 to 3/8 inch and thus most water from getting on the top of the hatch...Or keep a camper back/cockpit cover on the boat at all times....and live with the water which gets in the bilge during washdown.

On my 25 I am definately going to add at least one additional bilge pump. I don't think that the small rule which is in place is adequate if one got into a large amount of water aboard. (and the only "leaking" I have is around the "gaskets" in the rectangular hatches) The cracks around the edges and between the transom and the cockpit floor have been repaired..

[Bill.Secure]

The "grind down the covers" approach used by Cutter Marine (see my previous post on this thread) stopped the vast majority of of the leakage. I've already purchased (but not yet installed) a second bilge pump for the reasons Thataway has cited.

The combination of ground down hatch covers and removal of the scupper check valve flappers has made a very appreciable difference from the way the boat had been when it was delivered.

Bill
Edgewater, MD

[seahooked]

Bill,
Do you know how they "ground down the hatch covers"? And does this mean they flattened the bottom of the hatches until the entire sealing surface was flat?

[Bill.Secure]

I don't know the grinding methodology. Cutter Marine took off a rough 1.5 inches on the latch side and the two narrow sides, nothing on the hinged side. It did make the hatch cover flatter and reduced leakage markedly.

Bill
Edgewater, MD

[Dora~Jean]

My 2003 never had check valves ahead of the scuppers, not familiar with the newer setup. But I replaced the rubber flappers with ping pong ball type scuppers, fit in same opening and screw holes ($7 ea), work great, never a problem.