tom cat help

drjohn71a · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject:

Mine was hidden behind the mounting board for the Morse steering against the starboard hull. You can see a 1 1/2 inch white hose leaving a black "Y" valve which is partially obscured by the electronics. Moving the grey "tail-like" valve handle down and aft shuts OFF the overboard discharge hose outlet.

At first, I did not think they had installed the "Y" valve since you cannot see the entire valve, only the bottom corners of it on my boat.

John

thataway · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject:

Jim,
I assume that the "switch" in the battery compartment is the circuit breaker. there is a circuit breaker (similar to the windlass breaker) on the output to the helm electrical circuits. All of the 12 volt except the aft bilge pumps and the engine electrical/start should go thru a circuit breaker or fuse near the battery. I am not sure what you are calling the "emergency switch"--is this the circuit breaker or the main battery three way switch (1/2/all/off)? The 12 volt plug under the seat should go thru one of the circuit breakers or a fuse on the main electrical pannel.

There have been some bad circuit breakers. I checked and the 12 volt plug goes straight into a wire bundle from the circuit breaker. Also there have been comments that this is a unique breaker because of the lug which the buss bar attatchment. I would check the voltage on the output side of the circuit breaker--this will check the breaker.

I would be carefull about running the macerator dry--a short time will probably not cause damage, but there are macerator blades and rubber vanes. If you run the vanes without liquid for any length of time they will get hot and fail.

Our "Y" valve is about the same place as the Wallas stove bolted to a board which is laminated to the hull. Looking under the galley it is fairly obvious. Dr John, can you get to all of the hoses of the "Y" valve? I would be concerned if I could not get to all of the hose clamps easily and if I could not demonistrate to the authorities that you have the Y valve padlocked closed in some areas.

In our macerator discharge it is above the rub rail--and way too high. If you pump and there is a breeze, there is a risk of blowing material into the cockpit.....not good. I am going to ask the factory to move it and repair the hull.

Dr John.

rogerbum · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject:

IMHO, one of the problems in discussing any of these types of electrical issues is that very few boats are wired in any standardized way. E.g. in addition to requests for different options on different boats, even the standard items appear to not be wired the same way by different installers at the factory. Hence there is no consistent wiring diagram to which any owner can refer to solve problems/answer questions.

Long ago, I suggested that the factory try to standardize at least a portion of the wiring AND develop a standardized wiring harness that can be partially assembled external to each boat and dropped/pulled in during construction. I think that if this was done properly:

1) a harness could be created that had sufficient flexibility/expansion capability to accomodate future options/installs
2) The net cost for wiring would be lower
3) Each model of CD could come with a fairly standard wiring diagram that owners could use to trace problems.

Anyway, with regard to this discussion, I don't think we can assume that all the TC's are wired similarly so Jim may or may not always get advice that is directly applicable to his problem (in spite of the best efforts of all concerned).

drjohn71a · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject:

Hey, Dr. Bob -

well, I don't have access to the boat right now, but I can clearly state that only the tips of the "Y" valve handle are visible. Yes, you can see little padlock holes, but it's gonna be quite a trick to get a padlock on them behind that panel that was mounted over the "Y" valve for the Morse controls. Quick access to the hoses does not look probable to my current memory. I am anxious to have the boat close so I can crawl thru all that stuff.

All our local waters demand no possibility of overboard discharge, so I will have to padlock that ASAP upon delivery to Oklahoma.

Thanks, John

thataway · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject:

Roger brings out a good point--and it is obvious that at least the TC 255'as are done differently in the plumbing department--I have seen several different ways that the Y valve and macerator are done. I suspect that someone felt that Dr. John's boat was better because the macerator and Y valve was out of the under the galley area--often a food storage area. But I would have a fit, if I could not easily access the pumps and hoses. There is an access port to the area under the controls, but it would not be easy to get to hose clamps--or even the control adjustments.

For the most part the electrical seems to be the same on the boats I have looked at. There may be some minor variations, and some folks have wanted custom layouts of switches. The access to the electrical and ability to trace behind the console is excellent. Unfortunately there are no coding attempts. When I put in a new wire or trace out a circuit, I label both ends--at the appliance and at the fuse end, or at the battery and at the pannel end. Consiquently most of my wiring is now labled. The factory should be doing this. Many just use numbers and have a code book. Many production boats use a standard color code. The engine harnesses seem to have a coded bundle. But for example when the Wallas technnical assistance told me to pull the fuse for the stove power, I had to pull 3 fuses to determine which it was--

I think that the majority of the boats are wired the same ref the main trunk lines, but when extra batteries are put in at the dealer (I understand that the boats are shipped without batteries) then they may be hooked up differently--again, the factory should supply a diagram.

Bob Austin

drjohn71a · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:47 am Post subject:

Bob - My "Y" valve is in the cabinet under the Wallas area. This will give the most access of any location, I think, if the electronics were not over the "Y" valve. But, some of it is open.

The entire under sink cabint wall area, front, side and back, are covered with electronics units. I am thinking I'll have to put a plastic shield to protect from any stray water leaks. I am not worried about food near the "Y" valve since most of my food is kept in removable, sealed containers to reduce rodent and rot problems.

John

Byrdman · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:58 am Post subject:

Hey Bob! What type of label maker or wire identification unit do you use?? Simple gum labels with ink or do you have some type of label maker that prints nice clean readable labels?

Byrdman

thataway · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject:

Byrdman,
I use a cheap Brother label maker which I keep on the boat. I have had the best luck with the TZ laminated plastic tapes, wrap the tag bround the wire, not try and stick it on the wire.

Dr John--I assume that the electronics under the sink and stove are for electronic shift on the Morris controls. In our C Dory there are no electrical or electronic items under this area--save the wires to the Wallas stove--and well covered the back of the 110 volt outlet. Agree with all food going into plastic tubs and being covered. We have had a fair amout of water leakage mostly from the shower (problem resolved with new connectors). We had to also tighten one of the fittings on the sink faucet.
No evidence of sewage leakage in this area--but certainly something to consider if there were a leak. John, is there another board attatched to teh side of the hull which is inboard of the Macerator and Y valve. From your origional description I made (probably a wrong) assumption that it was foreward and outboard of the helm seat, under the shifter and throttles.

Regards,

Bob Austin

drjohn71a · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject:

Bob...

The "Y" valve is mounted against the starboard hull to some bonded panel under the Wallas area. It is pretty accessible, except that another, second panel is suspended inboard (over the valve itself) upon which the Morse control cylinders are mounted. Looks kind of like a small steam engine/piston setup there.

The guy who installed all the optional electronics (non-factory items) put all of them under the kitchen sink/Wallas cabinet area, on the walls. There's a remote Raymarine VHF radio, the autopilot, the fluxgate compass, Sirius weather receiver, Raymarine E-80 controls, ethernet gates, gps control, depth finder control and some other things. Pretty much solidly covered with grey boxes. An additional, large fuse box was added here, another under the helm and another under the aft control station, and another in the stern.

When I get the boat back and the weather warms a bit, I'll take complete photo coverage of all the installations so far. That will help us all to better solve any problems.

Lots of wires! It'l take me forever to label them all... John

Jeff Brigner · Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: electronics

the fluxgate compass under galley,

Remember the location of that compass. Any metal objects near or especially touching it and your in the Bermuda triangle with your electronics.
Most all of the electronics you described are on the back of the helm in my 25 with the exception of satellite TV. It is under the galley to make use of the AC plug. My fluxgate compass is in a different area away from everything and Byrdman and I still spent a night in the Bermuda triangle because of a zipper on a rolled up sleeping bag.

Would a plastic zip tie work on the Y valve so you don't have to fish a lock into that area?

Byrdman · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:20 am Post subject:

The old zipper on the compas trick.... What a deal. Sure was glad I had my ol reduncency bag with me...which I get on most boats with and had my little tiny hard to see, none/color 2" screen Garmin 76S on board.... I did have the bad rocks marked, but man was it hard to see that sucker without my glasses that night, and after seeing the E120 Big Screen. We did have a good laugh..

Also, there are some small cable locks that might be able to lock the Y valve. I guess when/if inspected, it will simply get down to what locked/secured from use really means to the inspector on the vessel at the time.

Byrdman

drjohn71a · Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:04 am Post subject:

A night in the Bermuda Triangle, on a boat, with Byrdman?????? That's the stuff of Steven Spielberg fame!

Re the compass.... the unit is labelled and the installer warned me that I should generally keep movable metal from anywhere in the under sink area.

I wish I were closer to the boat to picture all this better. One's mind starts to play tricks when trying to remember which neutral gray box is where when almost every cabinet has some electrical gadget inside.

Re: the lock.... I know that Missouri requires an actual padlock on the "Y" valve and, by telephone, Oklahoma has said it must be " impossible to dump", so I'm planning on finding a padlock. At Grand Lake, even if your boat is properly licensed, registered, etc., you cannot use your boat until a Grand Lake O' the Cherokees inspector has inspected your boat and affixed his sticker..... every year....

John

Thanks for the sleeping bag/zipper warning, though... John

thataway · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:11 am Post subject:

Just for comparison, I put all of the electronics either in front of the helm, a remote VHF on the side foreward of the breaker box. If and when we put in an auto pilot, the gyro rated flux gate compass will go under the bunk and the pump set will be foreward of the console. Of cosure not having the remote controls for the shifter makes some difference.

We do store metalic objects (pots and pans etc) under the galley, as well as food.

Regards,

Bob

Gene Morris · Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject:

I too have the Morse electronic controls. They are mounted under the sink. However, my network modules are mounted in back of the helm and the fluxgate compass is mounted on the centerline under the v-berth. The area under the sink/wallas in great for storage. The y-valve for the holding tank is easily accessible.

By the way Dr. John how are the permatrim tabs working out? And I have a question about the camper back on your Tom Cat. When the camper back is not in use, will the support rods be in the way when fishing or fighting a fish? Or will it rest out of the way?

Gene