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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 21354
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I don't mean to be contradictory, but I Believe it's physically impossible to side load an anchor from a single point of attachment.
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The Danforth and Fortress Anchors are notorious for not resetting and dragging when the direction of pull is changed. This can occur with many situations, such as a 180* wind or current change. I have seen this happen in multiple circumstances, including several where I have broken into the boat and been able to get the engine (es) started and properly reset the anchor thus saving the boat. There are multiple videos and anchor tests which show this tendency, not only with the Danforth type, but at times with other even 3rd generation anchors..
Setting an anchor is an art. You don't just drop it, put a little power against it and then move on to your next stage. You let the anchor sit, then gently put a load on it, check, let appropriate scope out and then more power, until you are certain it will not drag in that direction. Take bearings, and GPS positions with circle of shin if on one forward mooring (more modern) readings of the swing and set a protective alarm.
| Quote: | | . The rope path is quite smooth, and even after the rough night in the video above, there was no evident wear. |
Marine weather predictions are just that, predictions, and not certainties. I have seen many cases where 20 knots became 30 then 40 and on up. Many boats were lost in the 1982 Cabo San Lucas storm because of that factor. A friend nearly lost his Valiant 40 when he was riding to a stern anchor and the 5/8" double braid line almost chafed all of the way thru. I can cite many other examples. If I am running a line which needs to run thru a block, then it is run thru a block, not thru an anchor shackle.
Bahama moor, failure: In the tidal Río Aranjuez, Puntarenas, Costa Rica, a Columbia 34 cut its rode tangling its anchor rode in the running gear (Martec Prop) and drifted down river during the night. Granted I always set anchor alarms, and usually get up several times at night to check the bearings and rode. I also had instruments over my head in the berth which showed: Wind velocity, Wind direction, compass direction, boat speed over ground and depth, with alarms set on these perimeters. Not necessary in a C Dory, because all of the instruments are there by the helm to check at night. But I still get up several times to check the anchor, bearings etc. Also one should take bearings on a safe passage out of a harbor in case you have to cut and run in the middle of the night. (Yep had to do that twice in my 70+ years of skippering boats.)
| Quote: | | As to tangling - you can argue from theory, but I'm speaking from significant practical experience with dual moors when I say it is almost never issue, even without a bridal, even with a fin keel and spade rudder. |
. I have found tangling to be an issue. It is possible you have more experience than I have...,
_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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Salish_Explorer
Joined: 23 Sep 2023
Posts: 41
City/Region: Kingston
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Photos: Salish Explorer
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| thataway wrote: | | Quote: | I don't mean to be contradictory, but I Believe it's physically impossible to side load an anchor from a single point of attachment.
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The Danforth and Fortress Anchors are notorious for not resetting and dragging when the direction of pull is changed. This can occur with many situations, such as a 180* wind or current change. I have seen this happen in multiple circumstances, including several where I have broken into the boat and been able to get the engine (es) started and properly reset the anchor thus saving the boat. |
Sure. I've seen warnings of the same. That's quite different from side-loading, though, which can break an anchor's shank or flip it out of the ground.
In any case I think it's instructive to look at the context: two anchor moors specifically *prevent* a 180° change - they specifically restrict the line of pull to the direction of set, or very close to it.
I think we're in a situation where we are "agreeing at cross purposes". We both agree that a reset or significant angle change could be problematic - and I think we both agree that a two-anchor moor typically (not in every situation but most) projects against this.
| Quote: | | I have found tangling to be an issue. It is possible you have more experience than I have..., |
Again, as to tangling, I think we actually largely agree. It can be an issue, it's not typically a major one, all exceptions duly noted and so on...and in any event C Dories don't have keels! 
With anchoring as with any part of seamanship, it's possible to go round and round for weeks, to the eventual consternation of all involved.
Somewhere along the line we left the original setup far behind, though. I'm still very interested in thoughts on it.
From the input so far, if side-loading isn't a concern and the opposing-anchors setup protects against significant directional changes, the real question is whether the pulley effect is an issue, or whether it's mostly canceled out by the improved angle of pull.
I do also hear the question of riding gear (chafe protection), but I guess what I would ask is whether that isn't somewhat outside the realm here. At some point in the name of efficiency, you have to put a limit on how many layers of protection you're going to build in, and say, 'if the conditions change radically, I'll go out and change the gear.'
I can't say exactly where that sweet spot should be, but if anything it's another bright mark for double-moors of any type: You have two entirely redundant systems, from anchor to cleat.
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First-time C-dory owner; working on setting up a C-Dory 16 for maximum utility/adventure |
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