newbie needs advice

Mikey · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: newbie needs advice

Intended to go out for the spiny lobsters this weekend but was too afraid to go outside due to perceived engine problem. I have a Yamaha 80 w/permatrim on and I feel like I'm dragging an anchor underway. She will only get to 4100 rpm WOT. I've only had her out a couple of times but I'm pretty sure I was running in the 5000 range before. I've done all the stupid things (well,I'm sure there will be more to come) like forgetting to trim up the motor when pulling off of the ramp...thus draggingit a few inches. I didn't break anything, but could I have damaged or bent the prop enough to cause this condition? It doesn't appear to be damaged beyond a nick here and there (was there before) but I'm not completely sure. Could it be bad fuel? What octane should I be running in this motor?(just filled both tanks w/regular) I kept to the Intercoastal and ran her all day without overheating or any other problems but she just doesn't seem to be hitting her stride. Many thanks in advance for your reply.

marvin4239 · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:43 am Post subject:

Sounds to me like you may not have the motor trimmed properly or perhaps a bent prop especially if it's aluminum. If you have a trim indicator on your dash I'd examine the relation of the permatrim with the bottom of the boat while the boat is on the trailer. Set it to parrallel with the bottom of the boat and examine the trim indicator's position. You should get your best preformance with the motor slightly trimmed down from this position in calm seas. You can observe your tack and/or speedo while trimming the motor to determine best position. In rough water you'll want the bow trimmed down more to reduce pounding. You say you were going diving did you have the boat overloaded with gear? If you reguarly run with a heavy load you may want to get a prop with less pitch thus increasing RPM.

jennykatz · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: fuel

I think I would try a 89 octane gas instead of 87 I've been told by many serv reps to use 89 octane also I use Startron fuel stabilizer My Yamaha runs up to 5800 rpm with no problems .

Mikey · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:37 am Post subject:

Thanks for your timely reply Marvin...I did experiment with the trim position while underway to try and bring up RPM and speed w/no significant change in results. We only had snorkel gear, no tanks or weight belts, two skinny teenagers and one medium sized geezer (me) on board so I dont think it is a weight issue. Im going to buy a new prop today and hope that solves the problem. Love my boat..if I can only keep from sinkin er while Im in the steep learning curve!!! Thanx again Mike

Dora~Jean · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:50 am Post subject:

If you know the maintenance schedule that's been performed on your engine, check last time the carbs (4) were sychronized. Or possibly your throttle control box and/or cabling (at either end) could have slipped causing to not go to wide open throttle at the engine.

My engines hit 6,000 (twin F80's), I'm running 13.5Dia x 15P 3 blade props on my CD25. What prop size/pitch are you using (it's stamped on the prop)?

Wefings · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:04 am Post subject:

Dirty Carbs. Hi speed jets probably clogged . If it sat a while thats usually the problem.
Marc

lloyds · Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:06 am Post subject:

If trim wasn't the answer then it almost has to be prop. I have found small and midrange outboards to be pretty forgiving on fuel blend. But if the prop was bent enough for those results you should have been able to detect some vibration.

Mikey · Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:59 am Post subject:

Yep Marc...you were right. Continue to have problems with the carbs even after paying huge money to have them gone over (twice). Paid extra for a water test to confirm the repair. Ran like a top. When I put her back in the next day for a family outing...same ol same ol. Pulled it out, brought it home and drained the bowls...no fuel to #1 and #4 carbies. Floats stuck. Over 1000 bucks in last 4 months to "pro" mechanics. Have yet to have a good day in this boat since I bought it a year ago....love the boat, hate this engine.
Thinking of replacing this Yami 4 stroke 80 with a new FFI 115.

Catch 22 · Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject:

if you ever hit something with the prop, or drag it on the ground, it may not damage anything visibly, but it can brake the seal on your lower unit, and allow water in there, sometimes, slowly, you may want to pull the drain plug and see that there is not milky oil in there, not sure this would cause the problem you are having, although i suppose it could allow stuff in there to corrode and slow things up a bit..

Wayne McCown · Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject:

My first thot on reading your description of the problem was...gas feed.

Two years ago, when my CD was the same as yours presently is, I had similar problems, which I put up with until they got worse: the engines started stalling on me.

I ended up removing both gas tanks: each had about an inch of crud on the bottom. I sloshed out the crud in the tanks, blew out the gas lines, replaced the filter, and put in fresh gas.

The engines have run perfectly ever since!

Catch 22 · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:21 am Post subject:

do most people run an inline filter as well as the water seperator/filter or not, i was told my 10 micron water seperator/filter was fine, after running my new tanks for a bit i think i will change out the filter incase there is any fabrication debris in there...

Papillon · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:56 am Post subject:

As Marc said...the carbs is your most likley cause. Since you have had them gone over and cleaned and you still experance problems, I would be suspect of crud in the tanks, lines and I would change gas stations and fuel filters after a new refill.

Good Luck and Keep the Faith.

Mikey · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:45 am Post subject:

Thanks for the heads up on the lower unit...sounds like a prudent PM after banging it on the ramp. Not the problem with low speed however.
I 've already emptied both tanks of fuel; filled with fresh and added Stabil (the new formulation for Ethanol); changed out the Racor fuel filter; had the carbs cleaned twice at a cost of over a thousand U.S. (combined).
After tapping/banging on the side of the offending carbs, the floats dropped and flowed fuel into the carbs. I'll put in today to see if she'll run now. Irregardless, I think the only thing that was properly cleaned at the shop was my wallet! Now looking at E-Tec 115 (or maybe 150 if its light enough). Has anyone powered their 22 over 115? Do the coasties have any say about what I power my boat with? (Sticker says 100 max.) Thanks for your input and the collective genius this site provides. I need all the help I can get!! Smile

Wefings · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:11 am Post subject:

The Coasties probably wont have much to say but your insurer will . Suz has a 100 now . Its the same platform as the old 90-115. It will cure your ills and leave you insurable as well.
Marc

Mikey · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:29 am Post subject:

Thanks Marc...gotta do something. Wife's after me to get rid of it now. Stranded on the ramp 6 or 7 times now...has the opposite affect on my blood pressure as was intended. I remember a post here about someone getting a new rating sticker from the factory when they repowered their boat...anyone recall particulars?