Fountain of hydraulic fluid today

matt_unique · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: Fountain of hydraulic fluid today

I assume the problem is air in the system, but I wanted to bounce it off you guys. My helm unit had a lot of play during sea trials. Although I instructed the dealership to do a proper bleeding with the Sea Star high pressure bleeding system, like many other things I asked them to do correctly the only added fluid to the reservoir. This seemed to address the play in the steering.

I found fluid leaking while it was still in the driveway. I checked the reservoir and it was not overfilled (at least as referenced in the helm reservoir).

Today I had the helm hard over for an idle speed maneuver and fluid literally sprayed out of the reservoir like a fountain for a solid 2-3 seconds. I could clearly see it coming from under the cap. After cleaning up the mess I removed the cover and more air pressure came out but I could not otherwise reproduce the problem.

Is this just a classic case of air in the system? Is the only correct fix a high pressure bleed with the proper Sea Star bleeding system?

Thanks

Captains Cat · Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 8:34 am Post subject:

Matt, never had that problem with the Sea Star on the old 22 but did bleed it several times myself. It takes two people, one at the helm with the quart of fluid and the hose/adapter and one at the engines (I had twins on the 22 as well) to open/close the bleed screws. Not hard but takes a few minutes. I'd run the whole quart into it just to make sure.

Sounds like you had air in there...

Charlie

Wefings · Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 9:24 am Post subject:

Matt, the teleflex power bleeder is the way to go with a "Liquid Tiebar"system such as yours .
Marc

journey on · Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:40 am Post subject:

If you're having air come back out of the reservoir, it will drive hydraulic fluid through the vent cap. On Journey On, I found the only way to get all air out of the lines, actuators, etc. was with a power/pressure bleed. I would suggest you check all the fittings for signs of leaks before you get the bleed done. Hand bleeding doesn't generate the velocities needed to drive out trapped air (I guess.)

Instead of just saying " I want a pressure bleed" you might ask to see the equipment. Sea Star sells their own bleeding package.

Boris

matt_unique · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: Thanks

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm checking places today to see if they have the right equipment for the fix.

thataway · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject:

Agree, the power bleed is the answer--but be sure that the pump is OK. I had the same thing happen--gave a burst of power in hard over reverse, and it blew the seals in the pump. Teleflex overnighted a new pump, and Wefing's sent a tech with the power bleeder up. I suspected that maybe the system was not properly bled in the first place...

matt_unique · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: More fluid

I had an amazing adventure yesterday on the Tomcat. I will post that in another forum but I also had another fountain of fluid episode.

I reversed engines while hard to starboard and man it sprayed out from behind the reservoir like you would not believe. Good thing the last two times out I have worn work boots because they have been covered both times (to give you an idea of the spray volume). After this one though I had some steering trouble due to lack of fluid. I had only about 10nm left in the 73nm trip but it was a challenge to steer of course. A good reminder to keep a bottle of hydraulic fluid on the boat.

I will be putting her in for this warranty fix and a few other things ASAP. However, no shop in my area has the high pressure bleed system. At least none that I could find yet. I will keep looking around...but if I can't find a place with the system, what are my options? Is there any way the system can be bled without that machine?

Bob - you mentioned your pump had the seals blown - did the fluid shoot out from the reservoir only or did it come out from the seals? My hydraulic fluid is definitely coming out from under the reservoir cap.

Thanks

thataway · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject:

I definately had fluid on the back side and around the shaft--so my presumption was that the seals went. The pump was replaced and the defective (?) pump was sent back to Teleflex/Sea Star. Either way, you should not have this happen. In my case I had complete loss of steering. If you have had this back pressure, there is a good chance that the engines are no longer aligned thru the "liquid tie bar"--Mine were 40 degrees off (about as far as one could have them).

I would go for helm pump replacement, and not use the boat until this was resolved, since it is pretty rough to "hand steer" a 150 Suziki!.

matt_unique · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: Helm

thataway · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject:

Since my problem happened in reverse also, it leads me to believe that there is either some check valve, or seal which is not up to the task and fails. In my case we just replaced the entire pump--I had the catastrophic failure when about to take a group boating. I had an alternate boat, but did not load it until I put a call into Teleflex. I ended up talking to a Vice President, and he had no reservation about contacting Jeff Messmer (who was still at C Dory) to arrange overnight air transport of a new pump, and Wefings to send their tech up to bleed the system. Since then I have had no problems over several thousand miles of use.

I don't remember if I was spining the boat hard (one engine forward/one reverse, or both reverse)--but in either case, it was obvious that something gave.....and it had to do with the steering torque.

matt_unique · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Fluid

Thanks Bob.
I spoke to an authorized Seastar shop today. I described my symptoms in detail and they called Seastar. Seastar also thought it was air in the system causing the problem. They thought that if a seal had blown, fluid would be leaking steadily. I have found fluid three times. The last two times it was spraying from the reservoir when in reverse. As a first step they suggested having the system bled. If that does not work, replace the pump.

I will let you know how I make out.

YACD · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject:

Papillon · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject:

www.seatechmarineproducts.com/download/Seastar_Boat_Steering_Technical_Reference.pdf

Your url didn't work because you had a space after the f--in .pdf before the bracket in the last url tag.

journey on · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject:

I tried hand bleeding the SeaStar steering after I installed the autopilot. I tried 5-6 times, and the steering was always soft. Read the Teleflex instructions verrrrry carefully. I could steer the boat, but clearly there was some slop in the steering. Finally had the hydraulic system power bled. All the difference in the world.

I think the hydraulic lines were not level enough to get all the air out with manual bleeding. On Journey On the went up and down as they pass down the starboard side, and I don't think that enough velocity was generated by cranking the steering pump by hand.

All that said, there is nothing magic about the factory bleeder. It's just a pump and reservoir with the appropriate valves. Since they use hydraulic steering on big boats, I assume that any marine shop that services the hydraulics on those boats has a bleeding cart. Additionally, the Teleflex hydraulic fluid, as they tell you, is just aircraft fluid. One can buy this at any airport at 1/4 the price of the Teleflex oil. Different colour, but the same fluid.

Boris

matt_unique · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: Bleed

You of the 4 shops I have contacted, including an authorized Seastar Teleflex shop, none have the power bleed system. They all say the manual bleeding with two people does the same thing as the power system but requiring a little more time. Perhaps they say that because they don't have one but that has been the consensus from the shops I have spoken to.

I will be paying close attention to my steering of course. Prior to this last burp that squirted a lot of fluid my steering has been fine in terms of feel and responsiveness. I am waiting to hear back from a few other places and I will see if they have the pump.