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SeaFare
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 2
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 18 Angler
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 Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: Questions about a new motor for an oldie (1985) |
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I've decided to refloat my boat (seriously) which is a 1985 18' model. Its original motor (a 65 Suzuki) is quite dead and I don't mourn its passing, except for the cost of replacing it!
I would like to put a new 4-stroke Honda on it. Here's my problem - my boat seemed quite doggy with only two people and some fishing gear on board, so I was thinking of going to a Honda 75 hp. However the boat is rated for a 70, which means the dealer cannot install it for me. That's not a problem, but I'm worried that the new motor may be too heavy for the transom and that I might be overpowering the boat. I called the C-Dory manufacturer, noting that new 19' C-Dorys are rated for up to 100 hp. They could not really answer my questions as to whether there had been any structural change in the transom from the older models to the newer, and generally could not advise me whether the 75 Honda would be a good decision.
The leap in weight (more than 100 lbs heavier than the 65 Suzuki 2-stroke) seems to be about par for any new 4-stroke of comparable hp.
The other option would be to drop to a lower hp, (for a Honda that would be a 50 hp) and I'm not sure the performance would be that good.
Does anyone have some experience or helpful thoughts on this? I'd appreciate any comments you might have. Thanks
SeaFare |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 7932
City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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if you go with the 75 honda get the 90 instead, same motor and same wiegth so you might as well get the extra power . As far as lighter motors there are lighter 4 strokes then the honda and the e-tec is even lighter then that.
_________________
Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1165
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about a new motor for an oldie (1985) |
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| SeaFare wrote: | I've decided to refloat my boat (seriously) which is a 1985 18' model. Its original motor (a 65 Suzuki) is quite dead and I don't mourn its passing, except for the cost of replacing it!
I would like to put a new 4-stroke Honda on it. Here's my problem - my boat seemed quite doggy with only two people and some fishing gear on board, so I was thinking of going to a Honda 75 hp. However the boat is rated for a 70, which means the dealer cannot install it for me. That's not a problem, but I'm worried that the new motor may be too heavy for the transom and that I might be overpowering the boat. I called the C-Dory manufacturer, noting that new 19' C-Dorys are rated for up to 100 hp. They could not really answer my questions as to whether there had been any structural change in the transom from the older models to the newer, and generally could not advise me whether the 75 Honda would be a good decision.
The leap in weight (more than 100 lbs heavier than the 65 Suzuki 2-stroke) seems to be about par for any new 4-stroke of comparable hp.
The other option would be to drop to a lower hp, (for a Honda that would be a 50 hp) and I'm not sure the performance would be that good.
Does anyone have some experience or helpful thoughts on this? I'd appreciate any comments you might have. Thanks
SeaFare |
I would go with a Yamaha.  (better cold water performance)
My 1990 22 Cruiser is only rated for 90hp. I put a 100 Yamaha on it in 2002 or 2003, the same boat is now rated for 115hp I believe. The older C-Dorys were built one or two at a time with more attn to detail. I dont think you will have any problem hanging a 4 stroke on there.   Call the guys at C-Dory? |
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SENSEI
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1067
City/Region: Stanwood
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1995
C-Dory Model: 22 Angler
Vessel Name: SENSEI
Photos: SENSEI and SERENITY
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Byrdmans 18 with a 50 Suzuki
it works well
_________________
Roger on the "SENSEI" 
1983 22 Classic (acquired 1995)
1995 25 Cruiseship (sold 2012)
1993 22 Cruiser (sold 2014)
1995 22 Angler (acquired 2016)
1983 22 Classic (sold 2017) |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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SeaFare-
I think the 18 is different than a 19 or a 22, how much I don't know. We'll have to get Byrdman to measure his boat to see, and I'm sure he's got some definite ideas about the proper power needed for the boat.
The 19 and the 22 are the same boat, hullwise, with just 3 feet removed from the 22 to get the 19. They seem to require the same hp to get equal performance.
How much the 18 approximates being equal in hp requirements and handling capability I don't know, and the present factory probably doesn't either. So we'll hope Patrick (Byrdman) or some other 18 owner can help us out here. The other alternative is to PM or email Ben Toland who I think was involved in manufacturing the 18 and may have even been it's designer. Oldgrowth Dave can help you out with that contact.
I love my 90 hp Yamaha 4S EFI engine, but it does weigh 369 lbs. The Evenrude e-techs are very light for their hp, but are basically direct injected modified two strokes. One of our members* had some serious problems with cold weather performance from his e-tech. Their hp/weight ratio is very enticing, though!
Joe.
*Tom Brady, boat: Bidarka.
_________________
Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
  
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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Doryman
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 3807
City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
Photos: Lori Ann
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about a new motor for an oldie (1985) |
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| tsturm wrote: | | I would go with a Yamaha. (better cold water performance) |
I like my Yamahas, but did not know that better cold water performance was another advantage -- is this just in comparision to the E-tek or in comparison to other 4-strokes also?
Warren
_________________
Doryman
M/V Lori Ann
TomCat 255, Hull #55, 150 Yamahas
Anacortes, WA
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tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1165
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about a new motor for an oldie (1985) |
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| Lori Ann wrote: | | tsturm wrote: | | I would go with a Yamaha. (better cold water performance) |
I like my Yamahas, but did not know that better cold water performance was another advantage -- is this just in comparision to the E-tek or in comparison to other 4-strokes also?
Warren |
I used a 90 Honda 4 stroke for two winters, before switching to a Yamaha F-100. My own experience is what I am basing my statements on! Other's mileage may vary |
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CAVU
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 665
City/Region: Spokane
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: CAVU
Photos: CAVU
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I would think Oldgrowth Dave could shed some interesting light on this subject. He stretched his 16 to 18 feet. If he doesn't pop up here you might shoot him a PM.
_________________
Ken Trease
22 CD Cruiser, CAVU
Twin 40HP Hondas |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about a new motor for an oldie (1985) |
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| tsturm wrote: | | Lori Ann wrote: | | tsturm wrote: | | I would go with a Yamaha. (better cold water performance) |
I like my Yamahas, but did not know that better cold water performance was another advantage -- is this just in comparision to the E-tek or in comparison to other 4-strokes also?
Warren |
I used a 90 Honda 4 stroke for two winters, before switching to a Yamaha F-100. My own experience is what I am basing my statements on! Other's mileage may vary |
The performance of any good EFI engine will outdo an outdated carbureted engine virtually every time.
That's the reason we were criticizing the Honda 90's carburetered design which was only finally changed in the 2007 models with the general engine re-design!
Yes, Oldgrowth Dave will have much to say about this CD-18 repower!
Joe.  |
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SEA3PO
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1835
City/Region: Chester
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SEA3PO
Photos: SEA3PO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Boy Joe is sure right on there..... I would trade in my twin Yamaha 40's for a fuel injected set in a heartbeat if they wouldn't kill me with the difference... I was docked behind one of those new 90 Honda fuel injected motors in Santa Barbara and was impressed with how easy it started and ran...so smooth and quiet... from cold start to underway it was flawless.
My ole 40 hp Yamaha's have to go through a complete choke cold start...then finally once their warm they might idle...and might not..
Joel
SEA3PO |
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tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1165
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SEA3PO wrote: | Boy Joe is sure right on there..... I would trade in my twin Yamaha 40's for a fuel injected set in a heartbeat if they wouldn't kill me with the difference... I was docked behind one of those new 90 Honda fuel injected motors in Santa Barbara and was impressed with how easy it started and ran...so smooth and quiet... from cold start to underway it was flawless.
My ole 40 hp Yamaha's have to go through a complete choke cold start...then finally once their warm they might idle...and might not..
Joel
SEA3PO |
Sounds like you need to adjust some carbs! |
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tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1165
City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Questions about a new motor for an oldie (1985) |
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| Sea Wolf wrote: | | tsturm wrote: | | Lori Ann wrote: | | tsturm wrote: | | I would go with a Yamaha. (better cold water performance) |
I like my Yamahas, but did not know that better cold water performance was another advantage -- is this just in comparision to the E-tek or in comparison to other 4-strokes also?
Warren |
I used a 90 Honda 4 stroke for two winters, before switching to a Yamaha F-100. My own experience is what I am basing my statements on! Other's mileage may vary |
The performance of any good EFI engine will outdo an outdated carbureted engine virtually every time.
That's the reason we were criticizing the Honda 90's carburetered design which was only finally changed in the 2007 models with the general engine re-design!
Yes, Oldgrowth Dave will have much to say about this CD-18 repower!
Joe. |
Both my Honda & Yamaha are / were Carbeureted. Hopefuly the later FI models of either have addressed this cold blodded concern |
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SEA3PO
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1835
City/Region: Chester
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SEA3PO
Photos: SEA3PO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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I just looked online and see that the Yamaha 40 is still carbureted and the 50 is fuel injected..... plus it has 4 cylinders the 40 has 3 cylinders
The Yamaha sells for just over $5 K
Joel
SEA3PO |
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CAVU
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 665
City/Region: Spokane
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: CAVU
Photos: CAVU
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Joel,
I think you are pulling our legs-how does one get a "cold start" on anything in Santa Barbara? |
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SEA3PO
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1835
City/Region: Chester
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: SEA3PO
Photos: SEA3PO
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Ok....make that a Chilly start.........
The fog rolled in and that is kinda cool....
Joel
SEA3PO |
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