Power Options 25' CD

Fishbum · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject: Power Options 25' CD

I just bought a new 25' C-Dory after owning a 23' Parker. As a new CD owner, sure could use some advice on whether or not to install twin 75 Hondas. The dealership here in Alaska is really pushing the new 135hp Honda and a 20hp high thrust kicker option. I'm not sold on either configuration yet. Thought someone could share their experience.

B~C · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject:

Welcome to the pub. Congratulations on the new boat. There's herds of words on this site discussing the virtues of twins and single + plus kickers. It pretty much boils down to what ever you perfer. I'm sure some of the 25' folks will chime in

My IRA · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject:

We're going with the 135 main and 15 (high thrust) aux. mainly because we prefer the single to twins. Folks seem happy with twin 75's as well (even 90's). Also, we troll much of the time for Salmon or Kokanee (need slow troll). Another thought is that the 15 costs significantly less than a 75 to replace so why not put the trolling hours on the 15.

In the end, it's your choice, both setups have their advantages.

Sawdust · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:25 pm Post subject:

Not that many 135s or 150s in our area yet. I've run a 150 on a 21 Arima and was very favorably impressed. Very quiet and smooth, wide power/torque band, and extremely economical. I think the 135 would be a perfect engine for the 25. The 20 might be overkill for a kicker and think a 15 would be adequate, but AK gets some currents that would make more power something to consider. I don't own a 25, but have run them quite a lot.

Dusty

C-Puffin · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 3:18 pm Post subject:

Purchased a 25 back at the Seattle boat show and it went into prodution last week, so I do not have on the water experience yet but did some research and talked with some existing owners.

The first question is how comfortable are you getting back home or to the closest marina using your kicker if your main stops working. I have been told a 15 kicker run at 3/4 throttle will move the 25 at around 7 mph.

Then there is the extra weight of having twins 2-75 Hondas are around 746 lbs vs a 135 Honda and 15 kicker at 570lbs.

If you do go with twins I would take a look at Suzuki outboards since the factory has become a dealer for them as of last month . Two Suzuki 70 hp weigh in at 670 lbs and have multi port fuel injection in addition to being less expensive then the Hondas.

I ended up going with a Honda 135 with a 15 hp kicker. I will be doing most of my boating in the San Juans and Gulf Islands so I am comfortable that should my main quit, there are enough marinas around for me to get to one using my kicker.

I also looked at the Suzuki 140 but felt that in this case the newer technology of the Honda outweighed the cost savings of the Suzuki altho the Suzukis lower price and 6 year warranty made the decision a little tougher.

I hope I did not confuse your decision making process any more but thought you might like to have the additional information the Suzuki outboards.

Butch · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: single or twins?

Guys, this is a good thread. Can I add one more element to the decision mix? Well here it is... manuervability. My wife and I are seriously thinking about a 25" CD and the next biggest decision is twins or single. I have never operated a boat with with twins (inboards included) and I know what its like getting into my slip with a single (backing in). I am at the mouth of the Susquanna River in MD and the current is perpendicular to my slip. Its really tricky and sometimes not so graceful the current and or wind wants to "play" too. However, I slip next to several boats with twins and they use forward and reverse thrust on opposite engines to turn the boat and they seem to slip right in (no pun intended). Anyway, I would love to hear from some Dory owners on twins/singles and manuverability. Thanks! Butch

manuverability... the spelling is in serious question Crook

, but you all know what I mean Smile

DaveS · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:00 pm Post subject:

Butch,
I just brought up to the "forefront" the thread entitled "Help on 22 Cruiser Motor Selection"....there is considerable information there regarding twins vs. single engines. Be sure to read all 3 pages of the information posted there. I'm sure this information is applicable to a 25' also.

Les Lampman · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject:

Hi grouperdog and all,

I think the suggestion of twin Suzuki/Johnson 70 4-strokes would be a good one but the motors aren't made in a 25" shaft length (a requirement of the CD25). And that's part of what makes the choice of twins on the CD25 a hard one; Honda quit making the BF75's in a 25" model so only the 90 is available and two 90's is just more horsepower thatn the CD25 really needs but since they're the same weight as the 75's I guess it's a moot point.

Nothing I've seen or read about the CD25 with twins convinces me that there's any reason (other than you want them) to go that way and much about observed performance and boat balance suggests that a single is a (techincally) better choice.

Unless you're going to routinely run over 4500 to 5000 rpm (if so are you sure you want a CD25) the BF135 is as good a choice as the BF150 and you save enough to pay for the autopilot! Wink

The kicker of choice for the CD25 would be the BF15 not the BF20; the BF20 isn't available in an extra-long (25") shaft model so unless you're willing to mount the motor on an 'up-down' bracket you'll want the 25" BFP15D4XHTA. Only the Power Thrust model is available in an extra-long shaft and it only comes with power tilt.

Bess-C · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:09 am Post subject:

I have a 25 that I bought from Les. It has the 130 not the 135. Les is my guru, but I have a couple of comments after almost one season of using the boat. I'm not sure if the Honda 90's now have fuel injection. If not, I would recommend the 135 just for the convenience of having the injection. Our boat was in storage for 5 months, with a full tank of old (stabilized) fuel. It started on the first crank, and has run without a miss for the last two weekends. Also, the weight of twins may cause more balance issues than you realize. With a full 100 gallon tank of fuel below the cockpit floor, two batteries, a big cooler and gear in the back you will feel the weight. We just added a Honda 15 kicker, and I can tell a difference with that 100 lbs or so of extra weight hanging off of the back.
Lyle

Fishbum · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: Kicker mount

Any advice or pictures on your 15hp mount/set up. I sure could use some more input. Like you, I using Les as my Guru on the subject and he mentioned your boat. I'm really uncomfortable at this point that my dealership really understands these boats at all???

Any does or don'ts sure would be welcome. Thanks for the advice. Fishbum

stevej · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:07 am Post subject:

Good discussion, been thinking about repowering Shearwater for a couple of years but tough to justify when the existing motor has some life left in it (115 hp carbed 2-stoke)

On the kicker I have a 15 hp Yamaha 4-stroke and feel that it is enough to keep me out of trouble in most cases. I get 7 mph at full throttle in calm wind and water conditions.

When I do repower the main about the only sure thing is that it will be with more than 115 hp and it will be a single motor install.

Personally I feel that something in the 175 hp range would be perfect. The 115 spends the majority of it's time around 4 grand while running 18 to 20 mph with just me on the boat. Add two people fishing gear, ice, coolers and your looking at 16 mph at 4000 RPM. Not sure a 15 to 35 hp increase would be enough so that you could cruise at 20+ mph in good conditions with a load and run around 65% of full throttle instead of 70% to 80%
It's much easier to throttle back than it is to add hp later in my mind.

stevej

Bess-C · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:12 am Post subject:

I'll get some pictures of it and post it in my album. It is the 15 high thrust that Les described. It has EZ-steer and Troll Master so that it can be controlled from either the cockpit or the helm. It is mounted on a bracket so that it will clear the trim tabs. It's plumbed to the same fuel filter as the main, however Les put a fitting on it so that it can be detached and connected to an auxiliary tank. A nice feature that allows you to get home if you have a main tank full of bad gas.
Lyle

Chuck S · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:42 am Post subject:

We're not big enough for twin engines, but I wouldn't if I could.

Twin engines require twice instruments, twice the maintenance, and have twice the problems of single engine setups. This adds up to twice the annual maintenance cost. The present a much nicer profile at the stern and look very yachty though. And there are some handling benefits if you have three hands to work the levers and the wheel.

A major hassle is syncronizing the engine rpms. Unless the're synced they develop a drone known to drive some folks mad! Wink

-- Chuck

PlanB · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:48 pm Post subject:

My thoughts, as I read through this, seem to boil down to: If one is a fisherperson, the big single and a kicker makes the most sense. For a cruiser, it seems to be a matter of preference.
Thirty five years of flying taught me the question is not "If an engine quits" but "When an engine quits". Therefore, I chose twins. An engine has not quit yet, but one will.
As far as multiple failures, with enough tools, I think I can keep one motor on line, by cannibalizing the other.
One never has enough props if you explore the back-waters of the Mississippi.

Duane,
Plan B

Sawdust · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject:

Duane,

I agree, kind of. I've had 'em quit airborne and seaborne. And expect another quiet period some day - but I've lost both engines because one prop threw enough stuff into the other prop to take out both... stroke, one, two, three, four...

For the way I boat a main/kicker works best. At least one is generally out of the water. And what works for me doesn't mean it works for anyone else. TG I haven't had a main quit since I gave up outdrives. The differential maneuvering of twins, as closely spaced as they are with our CD's (except for my T-Cat), isn't a huge advantage IMO, but it is a factor to consider. If we go with the Skagit Orca it will have twin 150 Hondas... so there goes my whole case!!

Dusty