networked electronics

[jdaycpa]

My new CD 22 is on the way. From the pictures the veterans have posted, it looks like the nav station space is very limited on the 22. The old boat (27' Donzi) had a small Raytheon radar, a Garmin plotter and sounder, a vhf radio and not much room for anything else.

I have been thinking about a Furuno navnet with one screen displaying radar, plotter and sounder information to save space, and of course, a vhf. This could become a problem if the one screen goes down about the same time the heavy fog rolls in.

Has anyone had any experience with this type of system? Are there other problems with them?

This web site is great, especially for us new owners. I have been watching the postings since we decided to buy the 22 a few months ago.

[Sneaks]

Since we bought ours in 2004, I've noticed that the biggest majority of new owners have integrated systems, with Raymarine seemingly the most popular followed by Garmin as the plotter/sounder and a separate radar (JRC, Furuno, Raymarine). If you believe "Redundancy Rules" then IMHO two GPS chart plotters and two VHF's is as far as one needs to go electronically.

Go to a gathering and you'll see what's popular. Many radars are available as radar/chartplotters and many chartplotters are plotter/fishfinder combos. Put the most useful in front of you at the helm and the other hanging from the overhead shelf where it can be swung up out of the way if not used. Then again, don't do it that way. It's all personal choice....

To answer your reliability question, once past the "infant mortality" stage, solid state electronics is pretty darn bulletproof. Feces occurs, of course, but by sticking with the major manufacturers you're pretty safe. Absolutely safe compared to the bad old "vacuum tube" days.

My opinion is, of course, worth every penny you paid for it.


Don

[CatyMae n Steve]

We went with the Raymarine C70 that has all 3 - chartplotter, fish/depth finder and radar. It's a great size for the 22', though I think some C-Brats have also gone with the C80 model. I always carry the little handheld I had for my Duckworth before we got the CatyMae.

One morning after having over-used the batteries (a small fridge cooler we had plugged in), we were plenty glad we had that handheld! We were in thick fog outside Astoria on the Columbia and couldn't see 5 feet in front of us. We got back to port with our white knuckles and got our battery system rejuvenated.

IMHO, a minimum of a handheld as backup is necessity. Another thing we've added since that experience is a Honda 1000 generator...it has an adapter you can purchase to charge batteries.

[rogerbum]

I agree with Caty and Steve - a handheld backup GPS is a great addition - especially if you can plug it in to the 12V adapter and leave it on while going out so that you have tracks to follow back without using the batteries. Depending on the specifics of the hand held, you may not have as detailed a map on the backup so tracks are nice in certain areas to assure you miss rocks that cover etc. I'd also recommend a backup, water proof handheld VHF.

[Patriot]

I also was in the position of choosing electronics for the 25' Ranger tug that's coming in June. Being someone who likes to investigate before sinking the big bucks, I talked with everyone I could find from experienced cruisers to Anacortes Marine Electronics and other retail outlets. Without exception, everyone's first choice was Raymarine and most specifically mentioned the C80. Garmin was pretty consistently 2nd.

Raymarine also was proposed as the most user friendly and intuitive for the novice user. Since my current Campion Explorer has only a small B&W Standard Horizon plotter, a separate Lowrance fish finder and I have no radar experience, I definitely consider myself a novice. The Ranger 25 has plenty of room to mount the C80 in the console - Possibly even enough for the C120, so I have no limiting factors except cash.

Art

[flapbreaker]

In my opinion a handheld gps/vhf is a must have for backup. If you are going to have gps trouble it will likely be a system power issue so having two chartplotters powered by the same battery won't be of much use. I recently purchased a combo gps/vhf handheld that is water proof and has DSC capability. It's the uniden "Mystic". So far I like it. The map it comes with isn't to detailed but like others have said turn the tracks on. If anyone's interested It msrp's for 399 but I got it from an online retailer for 278.

[gljjr]

I've been contemplating this for over a year now. I had been planning on going the Raymarine route but recently I have been leaning towards going with Lowrance. The new models support NMEA 2000. The big drawback they have is that the sonar can't be networked as it takes too much bandwidth. You can network the depth but not the full sonar information. This is a problem for me as I want to have a large screen at the helm and a smaller one at the rear helm. However I would probably save at least a boat buck by going this route!

The E80/120 is what you would have to use for a networked Raymarine system. They are great but take up a huge amount of space front to back . The Garmin 3k series are also networkable. But much more expensive than the Lowrance. And the Furuno is the most expensive of all!

The more I look at it the closer I come to getting a Lowrance LMS 337 for the rear and for the front I would get a larger model. Lowrance also puts good charts on a "hard drive" of all navigable waters in the US on some models. This is a pretty good set of charts too from what I have seen.

[Norm S]

Gary, I agree with the easy ability to network with Lowrance. I've got the 337 in the 18 and have been very happy with it. A great feature for me is the ability to link it with my new etec. that will allow me to display all my fuel burn, engine operating info on the screen. I think that eventually I'd like to put a larger unit at the helm and move the 337 to the cockpit. I've got the Navionics gold chip in mine and it's very detailed charts. The only issue that I've had is that I get a bit of interference on the sounder at speed. I just haven't had a chance to fiddle with things to see if I can eliminate it. For me a big factor was that my fishing buddy has the same unit in his boats. Makes it nice when we are on each others boats we don't have to learn a new system.
Norm

[gljjr]

Norm,

The Lowrance emulators are a lot of fun to play with on the PC too. I've been playing with the lcx111 emulator today and it is impressive. I've used the 337 a couple of times and while it was OK I would want a bigger screen for my main helm station. The 5" screen just isn't big enough to use as the only screen for fishing IMHO. When trolling for Blackmouth I like to use the GPS to follow the contour line and fish the bottom 10ft of the water column. Having good electronics makes this much easier to accomplish.

Also, downloading the emulators gives you an idea of how much difference in size the various screens are since they are pretty close to scale on the screen (At least on my screen they are).

I would still like to get the Raymarine E120 and an E80 for the rear but there is no way I can spend 10-12 boat bucks on electronics!

[drjohn71a]

Patriot.... I guess that, with all the very deep water up there, you all do not feel the need much for a forward scanning sonar that warns you of hazards ahead of your vessel. As for me, I had an Interphase Probe for years on my old houseboat that allowed me to navigate tight channels and avoid logs, etc., so I would be hard pressed not to include one, or the new model, the Twin Phase, on my new C-Ranger 25. The deep draft makes this even more important to me.

I am planning on some type of Raymarine complete setup with a switch on the transducer AND and Interphase Twin Scope. I think the guy with the new TC 255 Dive Cat put a Twin Scope in. The probe forward screen is a bit odd to read, since the boat appears on the left and everything to the right is ahead of you. Also, the forward viewing distance is proportional to the depth. The deeper the water, the further forward you can see. So, basically you have to slow down in shallows.... My foggy memory of it is that the distance you can see about ahead was about 3-4 times the depth of the water. That would give over 12 foot advanced notice of water under 3 foot deep which is alot better than NO notice. I wonder what would have happened had that NW ferry that hit the rocks been equipped with a Twin Scope.

I am also planning an autopilot with remote control if that is possible.

Just my thoughts, John

[drjohn71a]

Patriot..... Also, you might try the E-80 since it seems to be more upwardly compatible to high def charts and multiple displays, etc.... John

[sailor-d]

Has anyone connected the VHF to the Raymarine display with the NMEA input cable? I am having trouble deciphering the manuals as to which wire goes where and what to do with the left over wires.

Cheers - Dave

[Sneaks]

I have, Dave. If you have a VHF with only two NMEA wires, they are for DSC position information to be sent to the Coasties via channel 70. Connect those two to the Raymarine yellow and brown wires.

Icom M302, for example, only has two wires which are NMEA receiver wires. The other wires in the C-80 connecting cable are not used and you can tape them, being sure not to short any of them together.

If you have a VHF that not only send position info to the Coast Guard (or your buddies) and can send your buddy's position to your display, you have four wires to deal with. The yellow/brown still go to the VHF input pair and the green and white go to the VHF output pair.

Each pair has a "common" and a "Data" line. If it isn't clear in your VHF manual which wire in the pair is common, start with the two that send date TO the vhf, twist the wires together temporarily and try it out. Your VHF manual will tell you how to check that you have position information. If it doesn't work, reverse the wires and try again. You won't hurt the circuit if you're wrong. Usually the VHF + is the data line and - is the common line but sometimes those engineers make it look confusing It's a "Job Security" thing.

Don

[sailor-d]

Your response was of great help - thank you very much Don.

The VHF is an ICOM M422 (newly intoroduced model) to a C-70.

So it would appear logical that the VHF output white would connect to the NMEA input (+ve) white and; the VHF input red would connect to NMEAA output (+ve) yellow? (and the other remaining wires insulated and secured).

BTW what does the +ve and -ve (common) mean with respect to NMEA cables, are mortals allowed to know this?

Cheers - Dave

[Sneaks]

Logical yes, as long as you end up with four NMEA wires connected to four Icom wires and the fifth NMEA wire tucked away unused. I'd tell you precisely but the boat is 25 miles away right now.

Don