View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
South of Heaven
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 1459 City/Region: Sharon
State or Province: MA
Photos: Blue Water
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:51 pm Post subject: Setting my anchor troubles |
|
|
I'm having a problem setting my anchor. I have a 16.5 lb plow style anchor and 25 feet of chain w/ 200 ft of rode (these measurements were from the previous owner, I never measured it).
So, the other day I was in maybe 10 feet of water or so. I dropped the anchor down until I thought it hit the seafloor and then let out about 20 feet or more of line. I then tied it off and went in reverse. Well, long story short I kept going in reverse for like 100 feet! I'm dragging the anchor...Why won't it set?
I'm aware that you're supposed to put out 6 times the depth of the water but I wasn't trying to setup anchorage overnight. I just wanted to test the anchor. Shouldn't 30 +feet of chain and line set me in 10 feet of water? The seafloor is weedy and sandy, no rocks.
What are most 25's using for their main anchor? Should I possibly upgrade my anchor or switch to a different style?
I also have a 8lb Danforth onboard for emergency's/backup. _________________ <><><> Jason <><><>
2005 Silverton 35 Motoryacht (Twin 385 Crusaders) (SOLD 6/20)
2000 Camano 31 Troll (Volvo TAMD41p) (SOLD 2/19)
2007 C Dory 25' Cruiser (200 hp Suzuki, sold 7/17)
2003 C Dory 19' Angler (80 hp Yamaha, sold 7/16)
1995 C Dory 16' Angler (40 hp Yamaha, sold 2/16) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you are in 10 feet of water and put out 20 feet more, you don't have enough scope. You're forgetting that you have about 4-5 feet of distance from the water surface to the bow. so you really only have about a a 1:1.5 scope. You need to get the point of the anchor and the shaft laying on the bottom when you are backing down on the anchor. If you are backing slowly, maybe a 1:3 might work, but in a weedy bottom, I wouldn't expect a good hook up with less than a 1:5. Go back and try it again with 60 feet of chain out and you may have a different result.
And another thing, That "Plow anchor". Remember that a plow is designed to lift the substrate, lighten it and move through it. Yeah, I know the Delta has been around for a long time, but for this "old farm boy" the physics and logic of the "plow" never jibbed well for a rock solid sleep system. That is why I converted to a "spade".
Harvey
SleepyC
_________________ Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ghone
Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 1429 City/Region: Nanaimo
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2011
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Kerri On
Photos: Kerri On
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ditto what Harvey said
Plus I'd move that anchor to a spare use. Way to small for you.
I run a 22 lb claw by Lewmar with 45 ft chain and 225 ft rode on a 22 and feel it's perfect, Many night's I'm anchored on chain
In our crowded anchorages I don't worry even at a 2-1 scope. Never more than 3 to one normally
We've sat thru 40 gusting 50 knots verified, in 20 ft deep with 75' out and not budged
One thing I like is not back down initially, figure depth plus height to roller times 2 or 3 and let that out, just coast back slowly in reverse and lay the gear out, snub it off and let everything sit never an issue unless I'm on rock so I move, in a bit add rode for expected tide change and be happy, at dark flip on the anchor light and snooze
If the owner picked the size of anchor out of a table in a marine store catalog, I assert it will be too small by at least one perhaps 3 sizes. If I had a 25 she'd run a 33lb Claw with 50 ft chain and 250 ft rode, she'll stay put mate. : George |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kushtaka
Joined: 17 Dec 2013 Posts: 648 City/Region: Cordova
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Kushtaka
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
more rode. In 10' of water your rig will probably need about 55' of rode out if the bottom isn't ideal, and sand/grass is not the best holding.
Doubling the chain might make your present anchor work a lot better. Otherwise I'd get myself a heavier anchor. I'm not sure about the 22lb lewmar claw, but the Delta Fast Set (a lewmar anchor, maybe the same thing?) in that size would be a good one. A true Danforth might work well too, they hold well on a variety of bottoms. Finally, a Fortress anchor is about as much holding per pound as you can get. a 16lb fortress would hold where your current 16 lb anchor will not.
Finally, I don't always power down on my anchor to set it. Especially on loose mud, sand bottoms I'll let the boat's drift come to a stop and once the anchor has grabbed on it's own, I'll back down a bit to set it, but I won't try to get the anchor set initially under power. That can cause the anchor to skip across the substrate. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
South of Heaven
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 1459 City/Region: Sharon
State or Province: MA
Photos: Blue Water
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A CQR is a good and well respected anchor. You need more chain that the 18 feet there. The 9/16 might work in your windlass, that you would have to check on.
Personally, the CQR is the same anchor as a Delta plow, except for the hinged shaft. They have been used well on cruising sailboats all over the world, but it is still a plow, the same physics as the farm plow. I'd be curious where it came from, and why it isn't hanging on a boat. Hummmmm, that owner just changed to a Vulcan or Rocna Why would I want his second best. An anchor is not boat jewelry, even if it is stainless or chromed. An anchor is insurance. No way around that. Not a place to skimp.
Best in your decisions.
Harvey
SleepyC
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
South of Heaven
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 1459 City/Region: Sharon
State or Province: MA
Photos: Blue Water
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks everyone. Well, since the 2016 season in New England is winding the last corner I'll probably wait until over the winter to make my decision anyway. Lots of time to research and make a choice. The problem is that it seems that there's several good options out there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7892 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would not go buy anything new yet. Not until you have tried to use your current equipment correctly. More rode out the better. I cant think of a reason you would not let out a 100ft everytime. Its just a 100 ft and you lose 5ft of that to the water and around ( JUST THROWING OUT A GUESS) another 10 in scope. So a 85 ft swing from center is nothing. I let out a 100 ft in any thing up to 20ft on my 22 which had 30 ft of chain. In the 27 I have 100ft of large chain. I just drop all of it and then back up real slow. never drag. _________________ Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MOOSE
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 619 City/Region: Rainy Lake - Int'l. Falls
State or Province: MN
C-Dory Year: 2001
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: MOOSE
Photos: MOOSE
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Depending upon the density of weedy bottom, that could be part of your problem as well. We have a delightful, protected anchorage on NW Lake Superior that we like to use. The water is 11-13' deep, but the bottom is covered in dense weeds that make it almost impossible to get a good anchor set. We have often dragged in the night, waking up very close to the rocky shores in morning. _________________ .....and remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 1135 City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Setting my anchor troubles |
|
|
South of Heaven wrote: | I'm having a problem setting my anchor. I have a 16.5 lb plow style anchor and 25 feet of chain w/ 200 ft of rode (these measurements were from the previous owner, I never measured it).
So, the other day I was in maybe 10 feet of water or so. I dropped the anchor down until I thought it hit the seafloor and then let out about 20 feet or more of line. I then tied it off and went in reverse. Well, long story short I kept going in reverse for like 100 feet! I'm dragging the anchor...Why won't it set?
I'm aware that you're supposed to put out 6 times the depth of the water but I wasn't trying to setup anchorage overnight. I just wanted to test the anchor. Shouldn't 30 +feet of chain and line set me in 10 feet of water? The seafloor is weedy and sandy, no rocks.
What are most 25's using for their main anchor? Should I possibly upgrade my anchor or switch to a different style?
I also have a 8lb Danforth onboard for emergency's/backup. |
I use a 22# Lewmar claw style W/100' of 1/4" G3 chain, spliced to 400' of 1/2" triple braid.
As stated above, let out more line.
Have a good one!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
South of Heaven
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 1459 City/Region: Sharon
State or Province: MA
Photos: Blue Water
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
starcrafttom wrote: | I would not go buy anything new yet. Not until you have tried to use your current equipment correctly. More rode out the better. I cant think of a reason you would not let out a 100ft everytime. Its just a 100 ft and you lose 5ft of that to the water and around ( JUST THROWING OUT A GUESS) another 10 in scope. So a 85 ft swing from center is nothing. I let out a 100 ft in any thing up to 20ft on my 22 which had 30 ft of chain. In the 27 I have 100ft of large chain. I just drop all of it and then back up real slow. never drag. |
Yup, Ill let out more and try my current setup again. But it still seems like a 16.5lber is still small for a 25, right? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
hardee
Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 12633 City/Region: Sequim
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sleepy-C
Photos: SleepyC
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
MOOSE wrote: | Depending upon the density of weedy bottom, that could be part of your problem as well. We have a delightful, protected anchorage on NW Lake Superior that we like to use. The water is 11-13' deep, but the bottom is covered in dense weeds that make it almost impossible to get a good anchor set. We have often dragged in the night, waking up very close to the rocky shores in morning. |
Moose, I grabbed this pix from your album.
It is the same Delta (plow) anchor I had for several years. It should hold. you didn't say how much chain you have or how much rode you put out before you consider yourself anchored. Think of it this way. If the anchor is just setting on the bottom, you are not really anchored, and especially in a weedy area, that might mean a long way before it sets.
There is no way I could go to sleep until I knew my anchor is set solid. for that to happen, and be sure, when backing down on the anchor, the boat will stop and the bow will pull down. I do this at above idle in reverse, about 1500 to 1800 rpm. The boat goes nowhere. Then I can sleep. If it was just a lunch hook drop, and I was on the boat, awake and keeping an eye out, but, if I'm dropping the hook, I want ot know I can trust it.
If that doesn't work, maybe going to a heavier anchor, or adding some weight (more chain) into the mix, or a kellet. Anything to keep the boat off the rocks.
Jason, I agree with Tom, don't buy anything until you have tried what you have properly. (Unless you are changing from a plow to a spade). It was on the boat, and maybe it was working before you got it. Obviously you may be in different conditions.
Harvey
SleepyC
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tsturm
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 1135 City/Region: Soldotna
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: JMR TOO
Photos: JMR-TOO
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote
Yup, Ill let out more and try my current setup again. But it still seems like a 16.5lber is still small for a 25, right?[/quote]
In my opinion that is not enough anchor. I used to do just fine with 22# & 30' of chain. I added the 70' of chain so I could overnight in 10-20 feet of water on the chain only.
Have fun!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20858 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, as all of the others have said, in 10 feet of water, you need 15 x 7 to set reliably: Or about 100 feet of rode and chain.
The 16.5 is light for a C Dory 25. I used a genuine CQR (60 to 75#) to anchor my cruising sailboats. The rule of thumb for CQR (genuine) was that you needed at least 35# to get it to set. They are notoriously bad in grass. Best for grass is the old fisherman, or a Northill pattern. (The latter is one of the most common used anchors by fisherman thru the world.)
I stres "Genuine" because the copy of the CQR does not work as well by any means. The CQR is a older generation anchor--and today one is far better off picking one of the modern anchors--such as Manson Supreme or Ronca. I happen to be using a 10# "Boss" for an experiment, and it has worked very well--better than a Delta "Fast set" For your boat I would suggest one of two anchors, as the primary bow anchor, either the Manson Supreme in 25# or a Supermax (Probably the 22 would be OK--but the 33 is recommended for your size of boat.
Don't go "cheap" on anchors. There are many copies and variations of the common anchors. The only Danforth to buy is the High Test. Not the standard or the "hooker" etc The Fortress are copies of the original Danforth HT, and have the "T" shaped inner edge of the flukes and sharp blades of the flukes. This is what makes the difference.
You trust your life on an anchor in an emergency--and will pay accordingly.
If you have a windlass, then be sure that you have chain calibrated for that windlass. A 25 should have a windlass--every for a young guy like the OP. Must of the windlass fir the C Dory use High Test or G 4 1/4" chain. Most rodes are 1/2" 3 strand or 8 plait. The 8 plait will store in half the space of the 3 strand. I happen to carry 300' of 1/2" 8 plait and 50 feet of 1/4" HT chain in the C Dory22. You should have equal to that in the 25--you don't need larger rode until you are up to the 30 foot + range. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Chester
Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 1176 City/Region: home
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sold to lovely couple
Photos: Chester
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
|
|