What about Garmin Radar???

Walt C · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:30 am Post subject: What about Garmin Radar???

Looking for recommendations on a Garmin GMR 18 xHD Radome (Radar) unit. My plans are to purchase a Garmin 741xs unit that will work with the 18 RADOME. I understand from the factory rep that I will be able to sync the Radar through the Garmin 741xs to my IPad Air. Has anyone done this before? It's not cheap to navigate in Puget Sound in a light FOG day or night. Has any of you had this type of experience boating in light fog with or without radar? I would like to hear your story.

kennharriet · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:03 am Post subject:

We have the older 740s with the Garmin 18 HD Radar and love it. It is very intuitive to operate. Be sure to get a radio with AIS to plug into it. Pretty sweet to have the confirmation of radar and AIS. What does the IPad Air do for you in the set up you mention?

thataway · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:35 am Post subject:

Many of us have navigated many places as well Puget sound and Straits of San Juan, with and without radar. Naturally with radar it is much safer. AIS is also an aid. However any system is only as good as its operator, and their understanding of that system, and how it works--plus interputing the radar picture.

I have Garmin 24" HD radar--it is good. It depends on what you want out of radar--as with any tool. The Garmin will be better at longer ranges than the Lowrance/ Simrad 3G/4G. The Lowrance/3G/4G will be better at short ranges and in descrimination.

The Garmin 18" has a descrimmation angle (ability to see two objects when they are close together) of about 5 degrees. The 24" is closer to 3.5 degrees. (better)

I started with the 740S--and went to the 1040xs, because of screen size. The amount of screen space in the 7" in the fore/aft direction--ie you don't "see" as much front and behind the boat as to the sides because of the width vs height of the screen. I have owned several radars which had 7" screens-the same 7" but with the 7" up and down--giving the best effective use of the screen space for use.

I have not tried the i pad. I don't know if the i pad would be more useful, because of the screen size, but I suspect that there will be some loss of resolution. I also don't know how functional the controls will be.

In general, if you get radar, use it regularly, when the visability is good. Get one of the books on use, such as Starpath. Learn how to tune the radar manually--do not depend on "auto" settings.

Walt C · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:01 am Post subject:

Kennharriet, I see you are just north of me as I'm in the Boise Area. Answer: The Garmin factory rep indicated to me that the IPad Air could be sync'ed to the Garmin 741xs unit and would display the radar image on the IPad screen.I don't know much more than that, as I have little experience with such items. I plan to leaving my C-Dory close to the sound and have the radar installed from and experienced mechanic at a good recommended shop. I just made that decision tonight, because very few people around here have the know how.
Times sure have changed around here, it might just be me, as I don't watch the tv much any more. I spend two to three hours in the home office most nights seeing what new on C-Brats etc.

kennharriet · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:04 am Post subject:

I think you will be very happy with that set up. When I was researching the subject I got a lot of good advice here. There is also good discussions on mounting the radar compatable with the type of dingy you use. I did my own install with a stainless mount made by Battlewagon. It seems like the radar arch is the most popular but I was height limited by the garage door opening where Lochsa is stored. As it is I only have .25 in. clearance.

I found the sentry mode most useful when cruising. It really improves situational awareness. Seems like I have been surprised more often by other vessels overtaking me. We typically run Navionics on the IPad in a ram mount as a backup to the Garmin chartplotter. In no time you will be comfortable with using it as an aid to "see and avoid".

You can't go north from Boise without going by our place so let us know if you come this way. ken

Aurelia · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:30 pm Post subject:

We currently use a 741xs and 18xhd radar dome on the 19. We do connect a tablet and two phones to the unit using the Garmin Helm app and it all works quite well. Cindie uses them for copiloting and we also use the tablet in the cockpit while fishing to interact with the 741xs like a rear station. We had a HD18 garmin dome in the past and do fell like the xHD version we now have is a step up in short range target distinction and the color ramping on the new unit does help. We have only used the new dome in real fog on three occasions so far but are impressed with the detail we can see including debris in the water, birds, and wakes as well. Very happy and the touch screen and Garmin enhanced guidance with the Vision mapping is really quite a spoiler.

Our radar mounted:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?full=1&set_albumName=album2026&id=20140802_161656&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

Greg

Aurelia · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject:

One note on the Garmin Helm App. It has a view mode or a control mode. The first simply shows you whatever is on the chartplotter screen. Cindie uses her phone to "view" what I am viewing on the Garmin 741xs. This includes radar or whatever is being shown on the screen at the time.

The second "control" option allows the tablet/phone to show the screen and also act as the control screen so you just use your ipad to run the chartplotter as though it was the unit. Really works well especially from the cockpit while fishing so you can tweak settings without running forward. This gives us a fully functional second station using a tablet we already own.

We use a 7inch or 10 inch android tablet most of the time. And the app is free of course at least for Android. We only use Apple hardware when forced at work Wink

Greg

starcrafttom · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:16 pm Post subject:

i have the old raymarine radar and love it but the new systems are well worth the money.

A word about AIS. If you can get it and radar do so, but it you can only get one get the radar.

AIS only shows you other boats that have AIS and only shows you to boats that have AIS. Just like the choice between radar and GPS mapping I would pick radar. Radar shows you the whole picture and not just part of the picture.

What I see in the fog around the Puget sound is boats of all types going to fast while the captain stares at a gps map screen with or with out AIS and no radar. He thinks he can go faster because he knows where the rocks and boats are and does not consider that other boats are out there. Why? I dont know but I have watched it happen. I use my radar to spot these guys and make sure Iam not in their way. Forget the rules of the road get out of the way because they will not see you until they hit you.

I would not go on the water with our radar any where.

hardee · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject:

Walt C,

I have been using radar since I got my boat in 2006-7. it runs if the boat is running, not dependent on the visibility condition. That is done for 2 reasons, one, if you have it, according to my understanding of the ColRegs, it is considered a navigation aid and thus should be deployed,; and two, it sees all around me even when I don't -- ie it watches my back while I am looking forward.

I have been in fog, various times, and variable densities. Believe me, it is not always light. I left Stuart Island one time, planning on some whale watch time, and the weather was reported patchy fog. It was, from a 2-3 mile visibility down to a Really 2-3 feet. There was a time I could not see the water from the window at the helm seat. At That point, I was relying fully on 2 GPS screens, and radar. I was hearing a BIG foghorn, and thanks to the Radar and AIS was able to talk to a container freighter heading down Harro who reported that he had not seen the bow of his ship for a couple of hours. He was traveling at a reduce speed of 12 knots. He could see me on his AIS and radar. (Wheeuu!!!) BTW, I never saw the Orca.

On another occasion, I was out to photograph the Canoe Journey canoes as they pass between Protection Island and Travis Spit, in the fog. (Makes for some neat pictures.) Visibility was about 150 feet and fairly steady. As I am watching 2 canoes and a support vessel about a half mile away, on the radar, approaching in the fog, I notice another blip, approaching from my stbd beam at a fairly rapid rate. It is lined up almost directly towards me, coming from 3 o'clock. I turned 90 to stbd, and then another 25 and it is now about 1/4 mile and still closing fast. As it went by me, now on my port bow, it is an aluminum boat about 20 feet, with a single person sitting at the wheel, head down, and apparently watching his GPS track. He sat up pretty straight when my canned air horn woke him to my presence. BTW, my fog horn had been cycling every 2 minutes as required. I credit my radar for avoiding a very possible BAD situation.

As to the radar watching my back, I have had a Washington State ferry sneak up behind me, and the rather huge BLIP closing from behind, alerted me to the ferry coming through the pass between Shaw and Crane Islands. The visibility was clear, but that 20 knot cruise they do sneaks pretty fast when I'm doing 6 knots.

The note to be sure and include an AIS receive VHF is a very good plan due to the multiple advantages of AIS info on you screen. That is discussed in many other places on this forum.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

colbysmith · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject:

Up till towards the end of last boating season, I had a Ray Marine Pathfinder 18" Black and White radar, and loved it. And I had several occasions to use it in Lake Michigan in pea soup fog, and local lakes at night during events that put a lot of boats on the lake in the same general area. It was a very useful tool in staying away from other boats and navigating around shore. Last summer I purchased the Garmin GMR 18HD. I'm still learning to use it. I'm really not impressed with color over B&W. But it's still a great radar, just personal learning curve. I have it attached to my new Garmin GPSMAP 840xs. Not quite as big as Bob's 10" unit, but hey, I like to have more window space too! Smile

This means I've also gone from a separate Radar monitor, to a multi function unit that is sharing more data. I have not used the new unit in solid fog yet. I suspect when I do, I will be going back in forth between just "screening" the radar, to screening it and the chartplotter with depth. (I also have my old unit as backup, a Gpsmap 541S, which I can also follow for charting.) I have never used any other electronics for navigating. (Ie. my iPad) Colby

williwaw · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject:

An interesting phenomenon when you're traveling very slow - like when you're in fog using radar - is that your COG vector on your chart plotter will likely not be accurate. The problem is at slow speeds the GPS position points may be too close together. Combine that with the accuracy limits of the position fix and your COG vector may point who knows where.

I recently had to navigate a narrow channel in thick fog and noticed at various times my COG was directly into the bank even though radar showed I was progressing in the right direction.

This issue is actually one of the main reasons I'd like to have an auto pilot. I'm told the electronic compass input will essentially eliminate the problem.

Walt C · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Ken,Bob, Greg, Thomas, Harvey and Colby for your input. When I take my yacht (22 ft C-Dory) to Bellingham, Wa, I'll be looking for a good dealer to install the Radar of choice. Right now it is the Garmin GMR 18 HD.
Harvey, I really enjoyed your write up about the Fog experience and I ask my Wife to read it, also. Now she is onboard for a good radar unit. Thanks

AstoriaDave · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject:

Harvey's tale of a fast moving blip resolving into an open skiff running hellbent for leather reminds me that before radar was cheap and common, many Columbia River mouth six pac charter boats would run near top speed in heavy fog on known compass courses, leapfrogging the buoys as they headed for open waters. The intent was to reduce the drift induced by cross currents, so the compass courses would lead to a known buoy, to be spotted in the murk. I was aboard one charter like that and it really did scare the bejesus out of me.

A couple boats I know of ran over buoys laid on their sides or partially submerged during strong ebbs.

All for those big salmon of the 1960s and 1970s.

thataway · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:22 pm Post subject:

ShellBack · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject:

We are going to look at independent Radar for Thalassa this year and wondering if any body has made a removable arch. . I don't see a issue , just do the base mounts with some kind of locking key or stainless removable bolts. but what is the hook up to the dome. Quick connect ??
Thanks for any input
Terry