newbe Question

[Guts]

Hello as some of you have seen in my posts. I an interested in the c-dorys 16 curser and 19 . but not ruling out the 22, but I think it is a little bigger than I want. What I would like to see if I could find some one who has pictures of there dory at sea off shore. All I am finding is pics. of shore or lake pics. How do these boat handle in 15to25 knot. winds with a (let's say) 6 foot sea.?
Guts

[Otter-BelleHavenMarina]

Guts,
There are others on this site with a lot more offshore experience in the C-Dorys than I, and I hope they weigh in. My experience was in the ocean off Nova Scotia last year, and I was struck by how well our 22-footer performed in large swells that were more widely spaced than the short, steep chop that is typical on the Chesapeake Bay on windy days. For a 22-foot outboard boat, the C-Dory is probably near the top of the list in terms of handling rough water. BUT...it still just a 22-foot outboard. Any small boat with a lot of weight at the stern (whether outboard or I/O) has a greater potential of being swamped in a following sea than a longer, inboard equipped boat. There is an excellent article about this on David Pascoe's Dockside Reports site
http://www.docksidereports.com/small_boat_safety_at_sea.htm
There are other seamanship and rough water handling articles on this site that are well worth reading if you plan to do offshore cruising or fishing.
Best regards,

[Sneaks]

Guts, this weekend it's 80+ degrees in the Seattle area and Memorial Day Weekend to boot. When it ain't raining or cold, ain't nobody home. Down here we know better than to get near a ramp on a holiday weekend.

Those guys have a lot more off shore experience and heavy weather opportunity than we do here in San Diego so they'll probably weigh in come Monday evening. There's a classic photo of a C-22 charging the waves somewhere here. It was the featured photo for a while and prompted many of us to get rocket launchers like his. Nerd's server is (yawn) on holiday time or I'd go look it up for you.

I've been out and about between Mission Bay and Oceanside right at the ragged edge of small craft advisories being issued without any problems at all. In fact I saw one larger boat turn back to avoid the rollers coming up the entrance and upon return passed a 26 ft. Bayliner on the rocks at the MB jetty.

Around us, it's just 12 knot weather to a C-22.

[Shiawassee]

The picture Sneaks mentioned is in the Snoopy-C album.

Dale, longtime lurker


--Admiral: Exactly where on that C-Dory are you going to mount my bass fishing seat?--

[Sneaks]

[gljjr]

Last year I was fishing in my sled at Neah Bay in 3+ foot seas with huge swells well spaced ( the maximum I feel comfortable with the sled). As I was slowly plowing back to port a 22' C-Dory went trucking on by at about 15knots as smooth as you could please. The Bayliner Trophy's were either pounding hard to be on plane or plowing like I was. That is what prompted me to look into them in the first place.

[Sea Wolf]

Guts-

There's quite a bit of difference between the C-Dory models, more than meets the eye. If you're seriously talking about routinely going out in 15-25 knot winds and 6 foot seas, I wouldn't recommend anything less than the 22.

The 16 is a great smaller water boat for 2-3 people to cruise or fish, but it's capacity to handle your conditions listed above is seriously less than the 22 or 19. The 19 is a shortened 22 that needs trim tabs to be stable and hobby horses more than a 22, and the design is fairly recent and few used boats exist, so the price of one will be relatively high due the the newness of the boat. It also lacks the enclosed cabin of the 22.

You really haven't said how many persons you're planing on have aboard, whether you' be mostly fishing, cruising, or whatever, or whether you'll be staying over night in the boat, cooking, dry camping (boaterhoming), or what else.

Look very closely at the capabilities of these boats compared to your present and future needs. My guess is that a moderately priced used 22 would certainly be the best bet for you for the conditions you state, and that boat would also adapt to far more needs you may have now and in the future, and that by purchasing it now you won't have to switch boats down the road a few years and start all over again adapting another boat to your changing boating habits.

I'm not saying this to deride any of the other models, just to address directly your question about what boat will best fit those needs you have stated and generally relate how these models adapt to different boating patterns.

Others will hopefully chime in with their ideas on this question. It would also help a great deal if you could tell us how you plan to use the boat in terms of the ideas mentioned in the third paragraph.

Good luck on your search for the perfect C-Dory for you!!! Joe.

[R-Matey]

Replying to the question about how the 19 CD handles in approximately six foot waves....well, yesterday I can say that we had a really great experience doing just that. We went south/south-easterly from the south end of Shaw Island to Port Townsend, right on down the Straits of Juan de Fuca. What a trip! Took us probably three to four hours. My version of it is that it was like being on a surfboard (and it's been a very long time since I've used one of those). Joe's version is that it was like being on rollers skates on a long hill. There was times that the R-Matey was almost straight up on the back end and would come back down to where you couldn't see the anchor on the front end. What an experience but the boat handled it just fine. I do have to say that when we left Port Townsend this morning that we went up along the west side of Whidbey Island to get to Bellingham. Like glass most of the way so didn't have the excitement of yesterdays ride.

As far as purchasing a 19 CD, it is really a two person boat. We have had a 22 CD and it is much roomier. It'd be nice to have another one but due to storage we're pleased with the R-Matey. We have a portable stove and an ice chest works just fine. The V-berth is the same as the 22 CD. We stayed at Port Townsend last night (cost $13 for a slip) and had a great night's sleep.

Whatever your decision (a 19 or a 22) we know that you will enjoy your boat.

Ruth (and Joe, too)
R-Matey

[Jerry]

Guts,

There is a couple here in Los Angeles, Keith & Komiko, who own a 16 ft. (unsure if it's an Angler or cruiser). They usually launch out of Marina Del Rey. I know they have taken the C-Pup out to Catalina Island and have caravaned from the Channel Islands Marina to Santa Barbara (I think). They could best tell you how their 16 handles the So. Calif. waters. Hopefully Keith will chime in, or you could PM him. Hope this helps.

Jerry - Another longtime lurker - #42

[Sea Wolf]

Ruth and Joe-

Sounds like you folks were on a real E-Ticket ride with real 6-footers!

A lot of (probably most) people over estimate the size of waves. The crests of six footers will be as tall as the cabin top of a 19 or 22 when the boat is in the trough.

Of course, it makes a huge difference if the waves are close together or spaced apart, and which way the current is moving and whether that motion lays them down or stacks them up!

Add some swell, particularly from a significantly different angle than the wind waves, and hold on to your C-Dory hat, breakfast, and life jacket!

"Real" waves in the six foot class (not just gentle swells) are something you will need to be able to survive when you have to in a C-Dory, but are not the type of sea condition in which to go cruising or fishing. Joe.

[Sawdust]

Joe,

I'm in measured 6+ ft. swells frequently. Not a problem, just the period (peak-to-peak) that will bite your cushion. When the Pass is ebbing at 6-7 knots and the 20+ wind is out of the west against the current -- not good C-Dory weather. OTOH when I'm off Ucklulet with 6-8 footers and it's whitecapping, doesn't seem all that bad if the bite's on.

Our C-buddy from Spokane can verify that one!!!!!

Dusty (good shrimp this a.m.)

[Sea Wolf]

Dusty- Right you are! The frequency/wave period is what really determines the ride which is how fast the boat has to respond to the waves.

Would be just like riding the electric bull at a honky tonk bar- slow enough and anybody could survive---crank it up and you could be in for the ride of your life! (May not be the best analogy, but kind of in the right direction!)

Been in any Honky Tonk Bars recently? (LOL) Joe.

[Sea Wolf]

Dusty-

Another refinement on the wave business for our fellow voyagers: Besides the period (spacing), one other factor that could stand some more elaboration is the current movement.

When sailing 14 foot dinghy sailboats in an Francisco Bay, it made a HUGE difference which way the current was going in the wind chop. With the current laying the waves down, wind waves were a piece of cake compared to the opposite effect when the opposite current movement stood them up into steep walls of sometimes nearly vertical water.

When the wind waves and current move in the same direction, the parallel motion of the water lays the tops and faces of the waves down to leeward, making smooth rolling waves.

If, on the other hand, the current runs opposite the direction of the waves, the tops and faces of the waves are stood up and are slowed down, if not stopped, by the current's motion of the water moving in the opposite direction. These wave fronts are steep and make for a difficult ride from any angle, but particularly going upwind into them. Ride 'em cowboy!

By comparison, we used to race the 14 footers and even 8 foot El Toros in the ocean down in Monterey, Ca. The ocean currents were much less than in S. F. Bay, and we'd sometimes experience ocean swells that would make the 14 foot masts of other El Toros disappear. But it was all great fun, as the swells were so gentle and far apart as to like having a giant blue golf course pass under you as you sailed along over the gently rolling hills!

Lastly, another factor: depth of the water. Not really a factor most of the time, but don't ask the folks going out over the bar, any bar, except the Honky Tonk Type. Shallow water stands up the waves until they break, making for the most extreme case of wave hazards commonly experienced. No wonder the Coast Guard trains the Surf Boat Coxwains on the Columbia Bar. When the water depth equals 1 1/2* the wave height, the waves break just as they do in the coastal surf, and as you guessed it, the outgoing current and incoming waves stand each other up into breaking conditions and that can equal much more breaking than just waves.

Sorry to drag this out, I know you, Dusty, understand all this, it's just fun to
muse along, help some others better understand some of the things we deal with in boats, and practice my old trade a bit.

* as I remember the number. For a real detailed discussion of this, study the circular particle motion in waves and you'll easily see why these phenomena occur.

Enjoy your shrimp, Duster!!!

[R-Matey]

(My) Joe's been been in seas much worse when he sailed on the tugs to Hawaii (especially if the run was in the middle of the winter).

Ruth (and Joe, too)
R-Matey

[Guts]

First I would like to thank all of you for taking the time to reply to my post. As far as the six foot seas, what I was trying to imply was sloppy conditions/with wind.
a good Question on how I would be using the boat? Well I would be fishing with no more than one other or most likely by my self. I enjoy being on the ocean away from every one all by my self, no other boats or people just me and the fish.That's one reason I'm a big fan of auto pilot, but that's a different subject. My back ground/ I fished commercially for eight years. On boats out of San Diego as small as thirty eight feet up to sixty feet. Fished for rock cod and bait fished for albacore, that's in the rack on the port stern with jack poles, some of you will know what this is. This leads me to why I like the c-dory. First is the shelter second is the free board inside the boat (due to standing on the hull) I guessing here. as I have not been up to a c-dory close see one.The sixteen curser is so cute but only fifty horse power. This would limit the electronics that you could have I think as it would not have enough power to run every thing I would like to have.Now that brings me to the nineteen foot angler. This looks to be the best bet for me. I am just going to see one. I am planning on going to Los Angles in July to see some new one that are coming in at a new dealer. The twenty two footer, might be ok. But I think I don't have the room to store it. LOL as I would have enough room to store two boats my whaler and a c- dory. I am also wondering if it would be to top heavy to put jig poles on? Not to be confused with teaser poles. The ones I an talking about are the ones like commercial jig boats and commercial salmon boats.Again thank all of you for the replies! and I will be watching this thread to see
what comes up
Thank you
Guts