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Aurelia
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2335
City/Region: Gig Harbor
State or Province: WA
Photos: Aurelia
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 Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:58 am Post subject: Better Cable Ties |
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Reading an article on the Marine Installers Rant blog this morning reminded me of a common problem with sharp/bulky cable ties and I sure seem to use a ton of them bundling wires or hoses together on the boat and motorcycles as I tear into things to improve them or just figure them out.
This design is what I will try to use from now on:
http://cableorganizer.com/act/cobra-cable-ties/
And because I have not seen them in a store, I will be paying more to ship them than to buy them but sometimes that is the price of picky.
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Greg, Cindie & Aven
Gig Harbor
Aurelia - 25 Cruiser sold 2012
Ari - 19 Cruiser sold 2023
currently exploring with "Lia", 17 ft Bullfrog Supersport Pilothouse |
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colobear
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 2154
City/Region: Denver
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C-Dory Year: 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Good find Greg. Thanks for posting it.
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Patti and Barry
formerly C-Cakes, now
rving around N. America |
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Chester
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Vessel Name: Sold to lovely couple
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Nice, this is a welcome and overdue improvement.
When I bought new fuel filters (Honda) for the boat the parts guy gave me some cable ties with a concave surface under the head to secure the fuel line. He said their mechanics no longer use metal clamps for this purpose. |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I'm gonna order some various sized ones in white. One of my projects is to put all my new wiring into white sleeving; these will come on handy.
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"We can go over there...behind the 'little one'....."
Wife to her husband pointing @ us...from the bow of their 50-footer; Prideaux Haven 2013 |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Chester wrote: | Nice, this is a welcome and overdue improvement.
When I bought new fuel filters (Honda) for the boat the parts guy gave me some cable ties with a concave surface under the head to secure the fuel line. He said their mechanics no longer use metal clamps for this purpose. |
Chester-
Can you get cable ties tight enough to securely hold fuel lines, even if doubled up?
I'd be leery of a leak/fire danger, until someone can prove to me that they're tight enough.
Personally,I'd prefer to trust a threaded Stainless Steel fastender (hose clamp) over a Plastic Ratchet (cable tie), intuitively and mechanically.
Joe.  
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Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
  
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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localboy
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 4673
City/Region: Lake Stevens via Honolulu
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2007
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Vessel Name: 'Au Kai (Ocean Traveler)
Photos: 'AU KAI
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| There are special tools that really cinch the plastic ties down and cut them off cleanly, all in one squeeze. I agree; when it comes to fuel lines, I'd want them secure. But look at new cars. Those cable ties are used everywhere. They don't corrode nor cut into the fuel lines like steel hose clamps can, so there are some advantages. |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| localboy wrote: | | There are special tools that really cinch the plastic ties down and cut them off cleanly, all in one squeeze. I agree; when it comes to fuel lines, I'd want them secure. But look at new cars. Those cable ties are used everywhere. They don't corrode nor cut into the fuel lines like steel hose clamps can, so there are some advantages. |
It's probably like or similar to the use of the single spring loaded compression type hose clamps.
They work, just don't seem as secure as regular radiator style clamps.
Joe. |
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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OMC, ( Johnson and Evinrude) started using the special 'cable tie' hose clamp in the 1980's. They were mostly used on the very small fuel lines under the hood of the motor.
The problem with the metal screw 'radiator clamp' is that it can 'pinch' the hose and not generate full circle clamping pressure. The 'pinch' can then become an air leak into the fuel system. When the oil injection system called VRO came out, fuel lines leaking air really became a problem, and caused over oiling. That is when OMC started using the 'Snapper' plastic clamps. If correctly sized, and tightened, the 'Snapper' clamp makes a full circle of pressure and reduces the chance or air leaking into the lines. I solved many 'over oiling' and lean running problems on outboard motors by replacing the metal screw clamps with Plastic 'Snapper' clamps.
As a mechanic, my advice is to use the exact clamp used by the manufacturer on fuel lines on the motor. For fuel lines in the boat, follow the USCG requirements for inboard boats. Use type A-1 hose, and long enough hose barbs to apply two metal clamps with the screws on opposite sides of the hose. If there is a problem with an air leak, substitute a plastic Snapper clamp for one of the metal clamps. How tight is right? If a hose turns on the barb, its too loose, and if the rubber is being cut, its too tight.
Do not substitute an ordinary cable tie for the special plastic clamp which has a curved underside at the ratchet end.
Retired outboard mechanic.
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Larry H
A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Ranger Tug 27 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2017 - 2022
Puget Trawler 37 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2006-2017
1991 22' Cruiser, 'Nancy H'--1991-2006 |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Larry-
Thanks!
Points well taken and made!
Joe. |
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centerisland
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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Chester
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Sea Wolf wrote: | | Chester wrote: | Nice, this is a welcome and overdue improvement.
When I bought new fuel filters (Honda) for the boat the parts guy gave me some cable ties with a concave surface under the head to secure the fuel line. He said their mechanics no longer use metal clamps for this purpose. |
Chester-
Can you get cable ties tight enough to securely hold fuel lines, even if doubled up?
I'd be leery of a leak/fire danger, until someone can prove to me that they're tight enough.
Personally,I'd prefer to trust a threaded Stainless Steel fastender (hose clamp) over a Plastic Ratchet (cable tie), intuitively and mechanically.
Joe. |
Larry H explained it well. I used pliers and an adjustable wrench to insure the cable tie was snug. I don't think the factory single spring clamp exerts more clamping force. Still, I left the single spring clamps on the hose beyond the barb just in case they might be needed. |
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
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C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I used pliers and an adjustable wrench to insure the cable tie was snug. I don't think the factory single spring clamp exerts more clamping force. Still, I left the single spring clamps on the hose beyond the barb just in case they might be needed. |
Good choice to have a spare clamp already on the line!
The cable tie type of clamp can also be tightened by gripping the tail with a needle nose pliers close to the ratchet, and rolling the pliers as if to bend the tail back towards the strap. This rolling action tightens the strap, and as the slack is removed, move the plier tips closer to the ratchet part. After two or three goes, the strap will get tight and the plastic starts to stretch. That is probably tight enough!
Clipping the end with a diagonal plier leaves a sharpened tip that can slash your skin like the point of a knife. I found a manicure clipper that looks kinda like a diagonal cutter, that is flat on one side, and cuts the tail flush with no sharp tip. |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 8650
City/Region: Redding
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C-Dory Year: 1987
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Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Hey Larry!
I thank you for your through explanation(s)!
You've explained the marine applications throughly, and I'm convinced you're right!
But it would be interesting to find out what kind of clamping systems they're using on high performance race applications on fuel lines on
Outboard racing motors.
Offshore (inboard) power boats
NASCAR racing applications
NHRA Drag Racing Cars
Formula 1 racing machines
Additional steps to this would be aviation/jet/ military/NASA applications!
Might be able to learn something from a comparative study! 
Joe. |
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Dreamer
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 1766
City/Region: Really Sunny SaddleBrooke
State or Province: AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Greg,
I have used low profile ties like that. They are very nice. I got them at Fisheries in Seattle! Haven't looked for them there lately, a bag goes a long way.
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Roger
Once a C-Brat, always a C-Brat
Dreamer- Sold 25 Feb. 2013 |
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 2041
City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
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Photos: Nancy H
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Joe
Just because you asked!
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