My Rule-Mate 1100 bilge pump sucks...

[JamesTXSD]

Or, once again, it doesn't suck. This is the second one in a bit over a month. No, this one wasn't new, but it never saw much duty as our in-the-cabin pump. At $85 a pop, this isn't my idea of good use of boat bucks. After putting a new one in this afternoon, we took the old one apart... there is a small hole in the plastic that allows salt water to get into the actual motor. I don't know if this is a defect or a way to build in obsolescence?

Before I put in the next one, I will open it up to see if I need to fill any holes in the cavity around the impeller.

This sucks.

To tie into another thread, at least the weather is nice: 82º, sunny, nice breeze.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Spike]

Jim
I had to replace my pump also. The boat was less than 6 months old. The wife and I were sitting out enjoying lunch when the pump just came on, no water in the bilge, nothing, and it would not shut off. Had to unplug at the battery. A year and a half on this pump, so far so good. But you are right they aren't cheap.

Chuck
Bootleg Hooch

[JamesTXSD]

The new pump came with paperwork that states a 3-year warranty from the pump manufacturer. I'll contact them to see if they will replace this second pump... I already tossed the first one. I let y'all know what they say.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Sea Wolf]

Jim-

Was it a float activated pump, or one of those "&*#+!$^%?#" $60 automatic wonders that checks for water by turning on every 2-3 or so minutes?


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Joe.

[starcrafttom]

It may be 16 degrees out side but both pumps have three years and 900 hours. now if the ice would turn to water I could use them.

[JamesTXSD]

Hi Joe,

No, it has a float switch. The first one lasted a couple years. It died on us while we were in Florida and away from any marine stuff places. I took the one out of the cabin and put it in the bilge... worked fine for a while. We don't get much water in our bilge, especially when we have the camperback on. I always test it before heading out. So, the second pump was the same age as the first, just never saw any real use until it got moved.

Never had one, but I wouldn't care for the automatic one that comes on every couple minutes.

Best wishes,
Jim

[Jack in Alaska]

My two Rule 2000 pumps have been in service for 15 yrs. and have worked w/o fail. The only problem is I hit one and broke the red base but replaced it.

My pump problem is with Shurflo wash down pumps. I have been through 3 and that is it for Shurflo. I use a bucket and brush. Took the pump and plumbing and threw it out.
Does Rule make a wash down pump???

[Sea Wolf]

Jack-

They sure do.

Try the following LINKS!

Joe.

[eNORMous]

So, I had the boat out for one week - this was it's second excursion - about 100 miles or so (200 hundred round-trip) - from Beaufort, NC to Cape Fear, NC. To my surprise, I realized the Bilge Pump was hooked to the Cabin Drain Pump. I would turn on the Bilge Pump, and the Cabin Drain Pump (e.g. the one inside the cabin contained within the cabin door step-down box) would turn on. I would turn on the Cabin Drain Pump and nothing would happen - hmmm - suspicious. I noticed when I picked up the boat from Old Lyme Marina when we tested the vessel, the pumps worked - at least they appeared to work fine (not noticing with any particular detail which one was hooked to which). When I got the boat home (in Beaufort, NC) I noticed the pumps appeared to be working - so I believed since there was water moving out of the sculper and water was draining from the Bilge Pump. So, I didn't pay much attention to details at this point - water was moving out of the sculper.

Now, here's the deal. In the original positions when the boat was delivered to me, when I turned on the Bilge Pump (on the Pilot Station Electrical Panel), the Cabin Drain Pump turns on - FULL TIME - it does NOT stop. And, when I turn on the Cabin Drain Pump (on the Pilot Station Electrical Panel), the Bilg Pump turned on (at least it did for some time since recall I could see water coming from the sculper).

I thought something is not right here. Shouldn't they remain off and only turn on when the float switch is activated - even when the Pilot Station Electrical Panel switch is "ON" (for either pump)? Why would the Cabin Drain Pump remain "ON" continuously - shouldn't it turn off if there is no water to raise the float?

Well, on this recent trip. I decided to investigate further. Looking at the wiring schematic and the wires on the back of the Pilot Station Electrical Panel I can see they are both brown/white. It is quite possible anyone could have made a mistake and mistakenly put the Bilge Pump wire on the Cabin Drain Pump Pilot Station Electrical pole and reversed the Cabin Drain Pump wire & pole as well. I had Old Lyme Marina put in my GPS, one additional new battery, the VHF radio & the compass. So, mistakes happen and it's possible the wires were crossed. I am not saying by who - it's possible the mistake occurred at the factory).

I elected to move the wires so that the Bilge wire goes to Bilge Pump and the Cabin Drain Pump wire (both are brown/white) goes to Cabin Drain Pump. Recall, the Bilge Pump remained on coninuously when activated to the "ON" position by the Cabin Drain Pump Pilot Station Electrical switch, while the Cabin Drain Pump (actually the Bilge Pump) does nothing - it does not turn on. I have disconnected the water hose from the Bilge Pump in the transom area leading to the starboard sculper. I have removed the Bilge Pump except for the electrical wiring harness, disassembled it (removed the float from the housing itself), tested several configurations and nothing.

Now, aren't some automatic water bailing pumps (either both or just the Bilge Pump) wired outside of or independently of the battery system? I thought this was the case but perhaps not on these vessels.

Well, here's the final straw. Now, when one of the wires (the one which supplies electrical energy) is attached to the Pilot Station Electrical Panel - the entire panel becomes energized and (depending on which "pole" I have this wire connecte to (either the Cabin Drain Pump or the Bilge Pump), "that" particular "switch's" red light illuminates.

No circuit breakers have tripped - none.

Any clues or troubleshooting techniques would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking of forward-thinking solutions to this problem but appears something is seriously a-muck.

Norm

[Bad Boy]

Looks like someone inadvertenly switch the wires to your switches.

My switches to bilge pumps are usually to manually turn on your pumps, bypassing the float. Bilge pumps run when the float is activated and is powered directly to your battery through a fuse and the switch is used to manually turn them on, bypassing the float.

In your case, they may have wired the cabin pump switch to turn on the power to your cabin pump but the pump is only activated by its float. There would be no bypass for cabin pump; therefore, you would not hear it run...the float would activate the pump. If the cabin pump is only for emergencies, it may not even have a float and you have to turn on the pump through the switch.

Because the bilge pump is so critical and must operate if you are away from the boat, it is always powered directly to your battery and the switch at your panel is only to manually bypass the float so that you can pump out more water than the float would allow.

I think you did right to switch the wires to the proper switch.

[JamesTXSD]

Hi Norm,

Apparently the same dyslexic person wired our pumps, too. The cabin switch activates the aft bilge pump, and the aft bilge pump switch activates the cabin pump. Probably the same person who was in charge of installing anchor locker drains, huh?

Our pump comes on when the switch is turned on (at least now it does since I replace the pump again); it is also activated by the internal float switch and will come on if/when water rises high enough, regardless of the switch position... as long as the battery is turned on. I checked the new pump prior to fitting it in place to make sure the float switch was working properly.

If the pump comes on without the switch in the on position, you will see the red light on the panel and may hear the pump if the motor isn't running. So, you can run it continuously manually or it should come on if the water gets high enough to float the switch.

While we always have some water in our bilge, it really doesn't accumulate much in there. We can go days while we are out cruising and not get additional water in the aft bilge. The only time we've had water in the cabin was when we discoverd the unfilled holes in the rub rail.

As a matter of "pre-flight", I run the bilge pump at the dock before I ever leave, just to make sure it's working properly.

Hope that helps.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[marvin4239]

I'm with Jim I think these pumps suck. My original lasted less than a year and the replacement seems to have a mind of it's own. On automatic it will sometimes work when the water level rises and sometimes not. I'd like to find a better more reliable replacement next time I change it.

[Bad Boy]

I also found my pump afoul when the impeller got stuck with fiberglass and sawdust. Actually burned one up because pump kept running with the impeller bound up in the housing.

The factory does a horrible job of cleaning up. When water gets in the bilge, it sloshes around and brings some of the sawdust to the bilge pump and can cause a problem.

On my Tomcat, I have actually put water in the sponsons with a garden hose and drove the trailer around the block, then parked slightly uphill to force the water to the bilge pump area. I pulled the fuses to the bilge pumps so that the pumps would not run and sucked the water/debris out with a shop vac. We have removed hose clamps, screws, hole cut-outs, chips of wood, lots of sawdust and fiberglass/gelcoat powder. We did this three times until I felt comfortable that I got anything that could get lodged in the impeller.

During my own modifications and installations, I also contributed to the debris so I am now diligent about rinsing out the sponsons after major projects and vacuming the water and debris out with the shop vac instead of with the bilge pumps.

[eNORMous]

Hey Guys-

Thanks a ton for responding. I'm glad to hear I wasn't the only one (which honestly, I suspected) they delivered a 25' Cruiser (or other model boat) to with backward wiring. Let me digest this with more time before I decide what to do e.g. call C-Dory or call Rule-Mate or both and get a replacement - the one Rule-Mate is definitely shot e.g. dead-in-the-water, it does not pump period - manually or via the float.

Speaking to debris in the transom, etc. Yep, same here. I found tons of sawdust & debris in the boat. Not sure you've seen my pictures on my pages, but I found a bunch of rags and several sanding disks in the hull of my boat, as well. Very, very, very shoddy workmanship IMO.

Additionally, this past week while in Cape Fear, I took one day and tightened every screw and bolt on the boat - since this is generally the best practice on a new boat after running about 50 hrs in order to ensure they remain tightened.

I was disappointed to find roughly 8-9 #10 SS screws in the cabin door completely stripped - I'll need to replace w/ #12 screws to get a secure and tight fit. I also found my port side V-berth cabin light housing had both #10 screws completely stripped - I had noticed it was somewhat loose and now I know why. Additionally, there were about 7-8 "other" #10 screws stripped in window frames & one screw missing entirely from inside the head door frame.

After I got the boat home (from Old Lyme Marina, Connecticut) I noticed the rear cockpit floor lazerettes didn't close properly. I opened them up and sure enough, the screws were stripped from the holding brackets on both lazerette lockdown plates. Additionally, during this past week while tightening screws, I noticed the SS hinges of both cockpit lazerettes have stripped (#12 or #14) screws. I'm not 100% positive about this, but I believe Old Lyme Marina is no longer selling C-Cory vessels; at least, that is what I suspect and the C-Dory dealer in Alliance, NC during our North Carolina Gatherings (end of September) suspected, as well. In either case, businesses must pursue revenue, sell merchandise to secure revenue, and sometimes they must make decisions based upon numerous factors. Sometimes the consumers aren't completely aware of all the information, but that's life and that's business. I still have nothing but GREAT things to say about Old Lyme Marina - great folks who do great work!

I hope the new owners (Fluid Marine) manufacturing C-Dory vessels will attempt to establish and maintain solid workmanship and quality control in their manufacturing. Obviously, something is or was wrong. I can certainly handle mistakes w/o getting too bent out of shape. These items which I now must address myself - which I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ADDRESS ON MY OWN - take time away from enjoying my boat, are a damn pain in the ass to deal with, and demonstrate to me very shoddy overall workmanship by the previous owners of C-Dory. This, IMO, is not acceptable.

I looked at a real nice Rosborough before deciding on the 25' Cruiser and I"m currently looking at a Ranger - more money, but you know, I guess you get what you pay for.

Perhaps after I've finished the proper wiring and assembly of the vessel, they'd like to purchase it back from me as an example of how they were supposed to be wired and assembled My rates are $250/hr!

[Will-C]

Jim,
I had an idea that maybe would work as new forum. Maybe it's called the SUCK FILE. Had a product fail, poor service from a particular vendor, go somewhere that sucked, the product or place you could list in the suck file with reasons and an alternative to that particular piece of crap or place you visited 0r purchased (in your case a couple of times) That way a search could be done before newbie brats buy something or visit a place that sucks. They could check the suck file for product reports or ratings with alternative reccommendation before they actully buy or go to some sucky place. Actual points of interest such as places you visited that didn't quite meet your expectations or weren't your cup of tea could be named with your reasons behind the poor rating. Care would have to taken as to fly below legal eagles radar of course. But the reports could be quite entertaining with the proper dislaimers. Just a thought, have a great New Year. Thanks for the entertainment. And no I don't really hate cats and dogs. No spell check required, and no, I don't have a C-Dory yet. But 09 is the year. Enough about me!
D.D.