Fountain of hydraulic fluid today

Discovery · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:25 am Post subject:

Discovery has had three different helm pumps.

The first installed by C-Dory 12/2005 at initial rigging.
The second installed by C-Dory 9/2006 when the first one failed.
In 3/2007 Wefings did repair work on the second pump to fix a leak, at the helm.
In 3/2008 the helm was again leaking and I contacted Teleflex. They sent a third pump to me and I have replaced it. I have not had a chance to get the boat back in the water to try out the third pump. Also the seals in the port motor ram have failed. Teleflex also sent a kit to replace the seals. I have not got that done yet.

journey on · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject:

Thats interesting. To date the helm/steering pump on Journey On has not leaked. thataways pump has leaked, but, Bob, was that on your 255 or 25? The others listed in this topic have been 255's. Werfings did mention a 19.

The gist of the above is that the pressure needed to control a pair of 150 engines with twice the mass, power/torque of a single may be too high for the Teleflex steering pump. Or at least marginal. One can put a lot of torque into that steering wheel, and the resultant pressure, instead of just swiveling the motors, may blow the seals.

Could one find better seals, or back them with a teflon ring?

Boris

thataway · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject:

The helm pump seals leak was on the Tom Cat 255, and within the first 20 hours of operation. It happened the first time I backed down hard (maybe to 2000 rpm--nothing which I would expect failure--I was just backing to a dock.--straight--so there didn't seem to be a lot of load, but with counter rotating 150's, it may be significant. No probelms with the pump on the 130, but that is an older unit. Don't know for sure, but it may be pumps built around the 2006 mid year which were a problem--that would fit mine and Matt's. I have had a number of boats with hydaulic steering and although I had problems, they were mostly related to the builder having left small amounts of metal in the copper lines. In this case the lines are plastic. No metal was observed in the fluid after failure.

This Sea Star system is advertised as suitable for up to twin 300 hp outboards up to 60 miles per hour. The Tom Cat would be running half the HP of the rating. One would think that there would be a very significant margin of safety, since steering is critical, and if there is failure, it is a major safety liability for Sea Star/Teleflex.

McDipple · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject:

This may not help but in reading the SeaStar tech ref manual I had a couple of questions and this is the answer I got very promptly from them.

> 1. Is your HC 5345 OK for twin Honda 150hp outboards? Your info only
> mentions the BF135.
>
> 2. On page 176 of your hydraulic steering tech reference manual
> Question 3. 3rd para you say that the hoses should have a gradual rise
> FROM the helm TO the cylinders. My helms are several feet above the
> cylinder so how do I achieve that?

The book is incorrect, a gradual rise from the cylinder to helm is what
you are looking for. A single cylinder is fine in this application.

Cheers,
Greg

matt_unique · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Pump

Well I had the helm pump replaced today. I was using a new yard (the last yard turned out to be crooks) and the new yard did a great job. I mentioned the last yard I used, and they said it was not the first time they have heard people complain about them.

It was an unusual experience it seems to have excellent service. They also had the Teleflex bleed system which made the bleed process quick and painless. The mechanic went for a test ride with me. I cranked her in reverse up to 3000 rpm and no spray out of the helm. I ran it through the paces, with engine hard over and high rev in reverse. Time will tell but hopefully the new pump did the trick.

Thanks for the help and advice.

matt_unique · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject: AOK

I realize this is an old thread but I wanted to mention that the replaced helm pump did the trick. I had no more leaks or problems for the rest of the season.

I came across the yacht yard that originally did the steering work and padded the service invoice without my approval (Winter Island Yacht Yard) yesterday at the New England Boat Show. I was shocked to learn they were a Ranger Tug dealer. Shocked

Wow...buyer beware.

I was pleased to see so much activity there though for Ranger and I also spoke with Bruce Perkins (Ranger Sales Rep). I think they had as much if not more activity than any other brand at the show. Bruce mentioned he reads this site and Tug Nuts. He also mentioned Jeff Messmer was planning to attend for a few days. I hope they do well. It was one of the busiest boat shows I have seen in several years. If I could own two boats one would be a Ranger...

catnap · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:09 am Post subject: steering

i have a 2008 TC-255 and had a very similar situation today. i started drifting toward a kelp bed and threw the girl in reverse with a hard over to the starboard, low and behold oil started pouring out of the forward helm. i am not quite certain if it was coming out of the filler cap or the hoses at the rear of the helm pump, regardless something failed. oil was everywhere.

this is clearly not an isolated issue and i was wondering if you gentlemen could provide me with the quickest way to get this issue resolved protocol wise. thank god for asymetrical steering and good weather today as it could have ended much differently.

i love this little boat but i have many minor problems that could have been mitigated had the employees who assembled the vessel exercised more professionalism in the build. you would figure for the price paid quality control would be a top priority. could you believe i found a set of knee pads and a disposable breathing mask in the hold under under the sink?

-shane

ps. i hope someone from c-dory management reads this message and takes the initiative to resolve this issue. quality and customer service is all that will keep you afloat sir. check your six.

matt_unique · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: Re: steering

Captains Cat · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:45 am Post subject:

This must have been a later problem with the SeaStar units. I've got a 2006, hull #16 and have had no problems...

Charlie

matt_unique · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: Pics

By the way Catnap, shoot a PM to Tybo to set you up with a picture directory and post some pics of your vessel.

Ha ha - that's a reminder for Charlie's Tomcat as well!

thataway · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject:

Hull # 39, May 2006 had that problem also--and it was a known problem then. Bad seals. My failed also in reverse the third time i ran the boat. SeaStar and C Dory stepped up to the Plate and replaced the helm pump and bled the system.

matt_unique · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: Re: AOK

Wefings · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:01 am Post subject:

Possibly a Uflex.Its Italian. Ranger Tugs uses them , as well as many others. They are the competitor in the OEM Market . There is a Japanese system called Hilex [sp?]as well . Ill look for the info.
Here is the Aussie version. Hydrive
Marc