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westward
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 718 City/Region: Seattle
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1985
C-Dory Model: 16 Angler
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Steady Eddy
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I would not expect C-Dory, absent some major innovation, to be any more a player at boat shows in the future than it is now. I happen to completely agree with Marc in his observations on marketing gimmickry vs. true quality, and building what sells. Putting boats on the floor is done to make profits, not to facilitate pot luck dinners.
Doesn't diminish the value of this wonderful online community however, or of C-Dory ownership in general. The values of simplicity, utilitarianism, economy, function, and "less-is-more" seem to be fading but are refreshingly evident here.
I think it's cool that one can still purchase a brand-new C-Dory if they really wish, and I hope the factory can still put out at least a limited supply of new boats into the future.
Mike |
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Jake
Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 171
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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ken35216 wrote: | Jake wrote: | Yeah, so take that. |
I didn't mean to sound mean. Sorry!!! |
Ken, I wasn't directly responding to your post, which is why I didn't quote it. Just musing on the back and forth banter. Actually, I very much agree that the C-Dory is a niche boat, probably why it is still on the market, the niche still exists. If I were on the coast, it would be high on my list. Although I do consider it rather pricey for what you get, there are not many alternatives if you want to purchase new, as I prefer. |
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Larry H
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 2041 City/Region: Tulalip,
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1991
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Nancy H
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Something to remember about the Seattle Boat Show is that it is a DEALERS show. Manufacturers don't get to display unless, like Ranger, they are also dealers. NMI is not a dealer so they don't get a booth of their own. _________________ Larry H
A C-Brat since Nov 1, 2003
Ranger Tug 27 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2017 - 2022
Puget Trawler 37 ex 'Jacari Maru' 2006-2017
1991 22' Cruiser, 'Nancy H'--1991-2006 |
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Two Bears
Joined: 07 Nov 2009 Posts: 296 City/Region: Orofino
State or Province: ID
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Two Bears
Photos: Two Bears
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I've also been watching this topic with some amusement. I used to drive VWs, several bugs and a bus. In the '50s, '60s & '70s either you were a VW lover or a hater. They were either the most efficient or they were an out right hazard on the road.
The people that disliked them wanted something more "upscale" and were willing to pay for it. Looking at the sales of the Cutwater, the new Rangers & the like with their attendant "blue-sky" price tags, there are a lot of people out there wanting that "Upscale" boat and they would never be happy in our VW bus of a boat.
I'd like to see some modist upgrades to the C-dory line up. However, lets be realistic. The Wrights might put $50,000 into up-grading their molds but I doubt they would sell many more boats. Your either into the VW mind set or you are wanting the chrome and glitter of a cutwater.
My new (6 yrs old) drive is a Nissan Xterra which is also a "nitch" car. Nissan stopped making them because they could only sell 50,000 a year. Rather than upgrade them they just move to a vehicle they could sell greater numbers.
I'm hopping the present managment hangs on and there will be some boats around four future VW mind set boaters.
Chuck _________________ Chuck & Penny Raddon
Orofino, Idaho |
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Ordutch1975
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 Posts: 255 City/Region: Portland
State or Province: OR
Vessel Name: Boatless :-(
Photos: PennyBridge
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Sure - but busses improved, well Let’s say charged with time (look at the brand new concept which will be hated by the samba folks till it’s loved, after the last one rolls off the line -lol). My point being that things, people, times change and as a builder if you seek to build volume you have to at least try to meet the market and currently whether we like it or not more “luxury” finishes at this price point is expected. Similarly if they built a bus more or less with the same fit and finish as they did at first they would not sell many except for the nostalgic crowd. It would likely not be a hit at current pricing levels.
I agree with Mark that for volume sales (to sustain a dealership) C-Dorys as they are today and at they pricepoint can’t be viable.
I love my new C-Dory she does exactly what I want. No more no less. And that’s the problem. You need to find us kooks to buy this boat and there ain’t many of us around and even less of us who even know C-Dory’s exist.
Ps Busses are awesome . My good friend across the street let me drive his once it was a blast. He caught the bug a couple years ago - he has 2 busses and a bug.
Hope some of this makes sense typing at 3 am on my phone (insomnia). Excuse any typos etc _________________ "And it is an interesting biological fact that all of us have, in our veins the exact same percentage of salt in our blood that exists in the ocean, and, therefore, we have salt in our blood, in our sweat, in our tears. We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch it, we are going back from whence we came. " -JFK |
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PaulNBriannaLynn
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Posts: 757 City/Region: Fort White
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: Lorelei
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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There have been changes. The interior is completely different now. Molded fiberglass with teak trim. My 2007 is much "fancier" inside than the 2003 we owned previously. The cockpit is raised up, which drains the rainwater towards the aft bilge pump. That was a design flaw I felt, to have the pump below the cabin door and usually a big puddle sitting there in the cockpit. The latest have new storage compartments and LED lighting among other changes.
I might be beating a dead horse here, but there have been changes. Maybe subtle but still pretty substantial for such small build numbers. I see it in my own boat, they changed a lot in the 2000s, and the latest one I saw at the boat show had new improvements. There could be lots of things that they could do, but I don't know if it would be worth it economically.
Ya'll are talking about VWs and Ive always been a fan. I grew up with a father really into classic Porsche 911s, before they became unaffordable recently. They changed very little over decades but with small subtle changes. That today is part of why they are so iconic now.
I don't know what the future is for the company. Build cost is the biggest problem in my opinion. I hear from some of the early brats they could buy a new c-dory 22' for around 30k, enjoy it for years and sell it for what they bought it for. Hell you could have bought one 2 decades ago, sell it today and make a profit if it was well taken care of. The cost to produce these boats is set and cant be negotiated I suppose, but that is probably it's Achilles heal. They have become expensive to buy new, and as a used boat they are worth what someone is willing to spend. Most of us have watched plenty of sales and know what a used boat is worth. _________________ 2007 22 cruiser sold 10/2021
2009 Parker 23 sold 10/2017
2003 22 cruiser sold 3/2016 |
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Big Mac
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 189 City/Region: Chehalis
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2001
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Mary Ellen
Photos: Mary Ellen
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: Cdory production for 2017 |
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I had a chance to look at the Cdory, SeaSport display on our recent visit to the SBS. I took the opportunity to talk with Ron Wright for a few minutes. I asked how many Cdory’s that were built in 2017. He told me 25. I think that is a very encouraging count. I also am happy to see the Cdory line continue. |
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ken35216
Joined: 12 Mar 2013 Posts: 577 City/Region: Destin, Florida
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lady Onyx
Photos: ken35216
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cdory production for 2017 |
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Big Mac wrote: | I had a chance to look at the Cdory, SeaSport display on our recent visit to the SBS. I took the opportunity to talk with Ron Wright for a few minutes. I asked how many Cdory’s that were built in 2017. He told me 25. I think that is a very encouraging count. I also am happy to see the Cdory line continue. |
Only 25? Cool! I like the fact that I don't see myself everywhere like most other boaters. _________________ 2007 25 Cruiser 150 Suzuki (2013-2016)
2017 25 Cruiser 200 Yamaha (2017-present) |
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chimoii
Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Posts: 271
State or Province: BC
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: R-25 Tug
Vessel Name: Chimo
Photos: Chimo
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Cdory production for 2017 |
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Big Mac wrote: | I had a chance to look at the Cdory, SeaSport display on our recent visit to the SBS. I took the opportunity to talk with Ron Wright for a few minutes. I asked how many Cdory’s that were built in 2017. He told me 25. I think that is a very encouraging count. I also am happy to see the Cdory line continue. |
I think that’s a really respectable number, higher than I imagined. _________________ Chimo: a word of greeting, farewell, and toast before drinking once widely spoken in the Inuktitut language in northern Canada. |
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Jake
Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Posts: 171
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Cdory production for 2017 |
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Big Mac wrote: | I had a chance to look at the Cdory, SeaSport display on our recent visit to the SBS. I took the opportunity to talk with Ron Wright for a few minutes. I asked how many Cdory’s that were built in 2017. He told me 25. I think that is a very encouraging count. I also am happy to see the Cdory line continue. |
Encouraging yes, but the important number is how many were sold. |
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starcrafttom
Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 7902 City/Region: marysville
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1984
C-Dory Model: 27 Cruiser
Vessel Name: to be decided later
Photos: Susan E
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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"Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer’s Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias. "
Well that would explain the twin vs single , ford vs chevy, 1911 vs glock, blond vs red head, Cdory vs Venture. etc etc etc
I think the main point that I was making a few pages back is that the current dealers and the builder do not understand their buyer and are not marketing to that buyer. As Paul asked " when have there ever been more then 2 or three cdorys at the show?" Well when Jeff from ranger tugs was sales man for cdory and had 6 plus boats at the boat show . All of them decked out and decorated just as he does the ranger tugs today. And it worked. they would sell 22 and 25s by the marine full. How many on this site up dated from a 22 to a 25 at that time?? I cant think of at least 4 off the top of my head. How many updated to a 225 tomcat during that time? DR bob?
Its not the lack of quality. That is higher now then before IMHO. Its a lack of marketing and innovation to the line. There are changes that could be made to the line with out changing the molds that I believe would sell more boats. Storage/fish box for the 22 would be one.
But hey its not my company and it fits their market of " if you cant afford a sea sport ? here you go" _________________ Thomas J Elliott
http://tomsfishinggear.blogspot.com/ |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20988 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Tom, I did buy a Tom Cat during the Reynolds / Jeff Messinger era. It was not because of marketing, or a boat show--and I looked at other, and sea trailed other cats at the time. I had ordered a new boat because of several custom options I could order; but during the build I was informed that C Dory was making all of the boats the same, and no ability for options...Not happy at that point! There was not there, nor is there now, a cat in this size which offers the livability of the Tom Cat 255.
I was influenced by the fact I already owned a C Dory 22, which I kept on the West Coast, and that my neighbor had a Tom Cat 24.
Here's a way for someone to .... loose a million dollars. Make accessories/upgrades to the current boats... I say this in jest because there may be a market there, but one would have to have other lines to make it a viable business. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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JamesTXSD
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Posts: 7451 City/Region: from island boy to desert dweller
State or Province: AZ
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: "Wild Blue" (sold 9/14)
Photos: Wild Blue
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, there has been a decade or so, and 3 factory entities during that time that have done little to no promotion of the entire C-Dory line. There are still people buying boats. Contrary to what has been said, there are plenty of folks here who bought their C-Dory new. That fell off rapidly in the last ten years.
During that same time, Ranger Tugs has grown from a one boat company (R-21EC) to two very popular lines of boats from 23 to 31 feet. Not coincidentally, at the same time Jeff left C-Dory to make the move to Ranger Tugs. Plenty of C-Dory owners have moved to Rangers. I am aware of only one couple (Joe and Ruth) who moved from a C-Dory to a Ranger Tug, and back to another C-Dory... that is more about Joe and Ruth's good taste.
This is NOT meant to be a C-Dory vs Ranger in regards to who makes the best boats. It is not about C-Dory buyers being "frugal"... rather it is about one company understanding who buys boats and WHY vs the other company that has done nothing to promote or advance their line. As I have said many times: selling a boat vs selling a dream/lifestyle. One company gets it, the other doesn't. And not a darn thing any of us here can say that will open their eyes. C-Dorys are great boats. But, just like any other expensive purchase: they don't sell themselves.
Even now, the factory puts an occasional image on Facebook (just started this only a couple months ago)... with little to no writing/explanation to induce a viewer to want to know more about these great boats. Seriously, is any successful business this indifferent about their product? It costs nothing to make a post on FB. There is a huge difference between marketing and paid advertising - a savvy business owner will understand that, and if they are not capable of generating interest on social media, they would be wise to PAY someone to do that for them.
I used to think they were "missing the boat" (pun intended)... I can't help but think they are plenty smart enough, but just feel the line isn't worth the free effort. It makes me sad for these great boats.
If the Seattle Boat Show is a "dealer show," the factory could get behind a dealer or two and make sure they have something to show. Ranger does that with their dealers for the big Florida boat shows.
C-Dory was a "niche boat" when they were selling hundreds of boats per year in the 2005 to 2007 time frame. I have no dog in this fight, and I am getting a flat spot on my forehead from banging it into the wall.
I think it was in 2008, while at Brent and Dixie's house, I got a call from Tom Latham (the guy who was running that particular entity of the factory... into the ground). I said to him, "You need to hire someone like Joan and me - Joan to be out on the line to make sure the details are all taken care of before any boat leaves the factory; me to be out promoting these boats." No, we were not looking for the job - just driving home the point that the boats need to have someone promoting them who loves the line.
Ten years later, I hear this entity of the factory is building great boats. Too bad there are so few people (as in: 25 buyers in a year) who know that.
Damn, I thought I burned this soapbox a long time ago. I guess when discussion of the Seattle Boat Show comes up, I get those feelings of missed opportunity again. My apologies if any of that wasn't "nice." |
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ken35216
Joined: 12 Mar 2013 Posts: 577 City/Region: Destin, Florida
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2017
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Lady Onyx
Photos: ken35216
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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With NWI only making 25 boats last year I think that is good for the people that bought boats in 2017 as they will hold their value. |
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BillE
Joined: 09 Jun 2016 Posts: 283 City/Region: Nashville
State or Province: TN
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: TBD
Photos: BillE
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Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ken, your 25 is gorgeous and the photos tell the tale that NMI is putting out a quality product now. I do think that Marc at Wefing's made a serious attempt at marketing a VERY nice Tomcat, with a "Ranger Blue" hull and many nice upgrades, and he could not get his money out of it in over a year's time. We absolutely loved that boat, and Wefing's is where we would buy, but the reality is that I can get essentially the same experience at half the cost buying used, and for my financials that simply cannot be ignored. _________________ Bill & Sherry C-25 sold 2020, next? |
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