Twin Power vs Single

[Will-C]

C-Nile,
I hope to see your boat in person one day. I was too impatient to wait for one, but I sure think they have some fine people involved with the product. They should have one at the Newport Rhode Island boat show this weekend. I would hope a C-Dory is displayed there but I think that might be a long shot.
D.D.

[hardee]

[C-Nile]

Will-C:
The Marinaut is designed and built in the State of Washington -- we live in Connecticut, more than 3,000 miles away. You are correct -- exceptional people are building this boat. We were so impressed with its design, that we flew out to Washington to take it for a test ride. We knew right away that this was the boat we were looking for, and were comforted by the fact that Les and Kathy at EQ Marine are held in high regard by the C-Brats community. As for the Rhode Island boat show, that's up to EQ Marine. We know that after they finish our boat -- the first off of the line, they intend to build another to use as a demonstrator and boat show vessel, but we think their first venue will be on the West Coast. We see that you have a C-Dory 23 Venture; that is a very nice boat, too, and we hope you enjoy it for many years to come. The hull of your boat was designed by the same person who designed the Marinaut. So, C-Dorys and the Marinaut are distant cousins, albeit different manufacturers. Frankly, they are all excellent boats. We think that anyone interested in a new boat should go out to Washington, visit these fine manufacturer's, and see for themselves which boat best fits their specific needs.

Harvey,
You are, of course, right. There are many good reasons for a twin engine configuration, and it is personal preference. One can never eliminate all risk, but one can greatly mitigate the risk of having one power source with either of the two options: single and auxiliary or two singles.

Thanks,

Betty and Rich

[C-WEED]

Ever lose your steering? Just one more kicker advantage...

[Bill Uffelman]

when you get your Marinaut I'd like to pay a visit enroute to our friend's home in South Orleans Mass. For some reason it is easier for us to get there than to Seattle.

We need a boat for our home in Ocean View DE -- Indian River Inlet/Bay, Assawoman Bay/Ocean City MD and Chesapeake Bay will be the operating area.Traded Volvo XC70 for a Jeep Grand Cherokee just before Irene hit in August so we have 5000 pound capacity and DelMarVa is FLAT so towing is easy. Looking at Eastern 22 also.

Bill Uffelman
Las Vegas NV and Ocean View DE

[hardee]

[C-Nile]

Bill,
Our boat will not arrive back in Connecticut until the end of October, after which point it is going directly into rack storage for the winter. However, the boat will be ready for use after April 15, 2012. We would love to show you the boat. When in Washington, we will be living on the boat for at least two weeks. So we will share with the group our experience of living and using the Marinaut during that time. We sort of think that the camperback will make all the difference, as others so equipped have found, but until we try living on the boat for ourselves for two weeks, we'll never know for sure.

Betty and Rich

[Matt Gurnsey]

Twins? We don't need no stinking twins-

[starcrafttom]

I have not only a opinion but a single and a kicker. I think that the decision to get twins or not should be based on HP, weight, cost and performance not safety as a back up. If I had twins I would also have kicker as c-daisy does. even a small kicker would be better then relieving on one of your twins as a back up.

As stated by others most things that will take out your engine will take out both of them. Whether its fuel , electrical or a prop strike you are likely to lose both motors. Now I carry a small amount of fuel for the dinghy motor and most folks I know that fish off shore use only a separate gas can for the kicker. Either way you will have a back up source of fuel. That being said what is likely to be your fuel problem in the first place? plugged filters are the most likely to occur followed by a introduction of air in a leaking line or bad bulb. A more realistic solution to these problems is spares. Yes carry a spare filters for every thing and enough hose, connectors and a bulb to re run your fuel lines. Knowing how to do it before you have to do it is also a great idea
.
As for the electrical problems. I only own kickers that I can hand start. and believe it or not most of the mid size four strokes can be started with a rope. I have started my 90 several times with just the rope.

The other big concern, and most likely to happen it seems , is hitting a object that will damage your prop and or lower unit. This can be in the form of hitting a log, float, wrap a line, grounding or just throw a blade. I once threw a blade on a aluminum prop for no reason. Well there was a reason I just don't know what it is. At some point I must have hit or nicked or struck the blade on something and after a unknown amount of time it flew off while under 3/4 power. This might have damaged the second prop or not. In most cases I think you are going to lose or damage both engines.

I carry a spare prop but getting the prop off and another on is not something that can always, if ever, be done at the location that you threw the prop. So you still need to be able to move or stop moving that boat. This is where a anchor is important. I have heard people ask or even state if a anchor is important if you don't anchor much?? I have carried a anchor in every boat I have ever owned from my float tube on up to my 27. If you have two spare props you still have to get back to port to put them on or at least a near by anchorage. Well you are going to need a kicker for that.


So in the end I decided that if a second motor is really not much of a back up why have one in the first place. A kicker that is out of the water, has a separate fuel filter, and can be hand started is far more of a back up then a second motor could ever really be. Just one opinion.

[lloyds]

I have twin 35's as that was what was on the boat when I bought it as a used unit. There are some handling advantages with twins while in close quarters, which I am still learning, but if I had a choice I too would probably go with a single and a kicker. Maybe save another 100 pounds or so.

[NORO LIM]

[C-WEED]

SleepyC:

Cable steering has a habit of all of a sudden binding up or fraying from corrosion to the point that the motor suddenly can not be steered. The same for hydraulic steering if a seal fails and fluid is lost. It may be possible to hug the motors and try to steer them or fashion a tiller from a paddle. But to counteract the torque produced this way is difficult. Most don't think about steering trouble until all of a sudden the wheel gets very stiff to turn.

Steering failures never occur at the dock!

With a kicker just grab the tiller and steer away...

[Will-C]

For folks with C.C.'s and 23' Ventures one Yamaha 150 hp weighs in at 476 only about 60 pounds more than a 115 hp. The new Yamaha 70's weigh 257 each which if I was doing a new 23 the 70's might be nice for cruising up in Alaska. One thing about engine choices; I think it has a lot to do has to do with where and how you intend to use your boat. After being on Flaming Gorge, Jackson Lake and Yellowstone where the oxygen levels are down by up 24% It's nice to still be able to easily get up on plane and do in excess of 25 mph if need be.. We are glad to have not have under powered our boat. Carrying extra people and being loaded for a week of cruising it's nice to have the extra power imho. Running with 22's Cruisers with single engines we have about the same range as we carry 60 gallons to a 22's 44 gallon. We get about 3.2 mpg running at about 3500 to 4000 nets us about 20 to 25 mph depending on how we are loaded. If we need to really conserve fuel we just slow down to about 5 mph and turn on the autopilot and watch the world slide by.
D.D.
D.D.

[Dora~Jean]

This is one of those discussions that comes up from time to time, borders on politics and religion. I have a few experiences to share.

I have twin Yamaha 80's on my CD25 which I've owned 8 yrs since new. Never had twins before, but had this yearning desire to have them. Prior boats I had a get-home-kicker, usually an older, cheap vintage model of sorts (not the best idea). Had to use a 15hp kicker on a 20ft Crestliner (aluminum, modified V), took me nearly 4 hours to go 12 nm crabbing into the wind/waves, got back at dark, but was very thankful none-the-less.

First off, I use the twins' ability to turn the boat on a dime quite regularly, especially when approaching a mooring ball with the wind on the nose or just off. These boats, with their shallow draft, tend to fall off the wind rapidly at a moments notice, so I love the extra turning torque that the twins provide (1 eng fwd, 1 reverse) -- not an immense amount of torque, but sufficient in most conditions. It's saved my azz from hitting another boat close by several times.

It seems I usually hit some seaweed on every 3-5 trips, such that it wraps around and clogs the water intake, the temp alarm sounds, I shut down that engine while still running at speed, raise it up to clear the clog, lower it, restart and resume. I've gotten very good at this. I've had my passenger friends ask what was that alarm -- oh, just seaweed, already cleared it and resumed before they knew enough to get shook. ha. This is more of a convenience feature of twins, not a necessity.

Last year coming home at night from Catalina (22 nm), had my daughter with me, mid-channel one engine quit while at speed, its voltage regulator fried and took out the main fuse that powers the ignition system. I have a very simple battery system, just 1 battery per motor. I continued at 6-7 knots in moderate seas, no problem. The replacement regulator's heatsink was nearly double in size, must have been a design problem. This incident bordered on a safety issue, I was in the 4-mile wide shipping lanes when it died.

And just on my last trip, the starboard engine's temp alarm sounded soon after I dropped it to idle to approach the dock. I shut it down, continued on with one engine, docked, no problem. There were boats all around me and a moderate breeze. This would have been dicey to anchor, start the kicker, pull up the anchor then dock among all these boats. I looked at my maintenance logs, 4 yrs since I replaced the water impellers, that was pushing it, so they're getting new ones this weekend.

Another time, one of my batteries went dead (my fault, too much TV the night before on an old battery). So I started the engine with the good battery, let it run for a few minutes, then paralleled the dead battery with the battery switch, let it charge up for awhile, then switched back to separate batteries (very important), and started the other engine. The battery worked fine for the trip (Delta Extravaganza 5 days), replaced them both when I got home. Again, convenience, not safety.

Sure, the initial cost of two smaller motors is higher, and the maintenance is double (but not very costly because I do most myself), and the time to maintain a little more. But then there's just the sheer satisfaction and enjoyment of throttling up and syncing twins! A single just doesn't have that satisfaction. And having twins purring along while you're doing 8-12 knots in nasty conditions, waves breaking over the boat and engines, is well, just very reassuring. What can I say.

Would I get twins again? Depends on whether I'm going to be offshore a lot, what size boat, water/weather conditions I'm likely to encounter, etc. So far, I'd say yes, love my twins!

My 2c.

[Dora~Jean]

I forgot to mention, I average 2.6-2.8 nmpg. Some trips are 10-13 knots in big seas, others in smooth seas, but prefer 16-18 knots most all the time (4200-4500rpms). My boat is somewhat lighter than most CD25's without the water heater, holding tank, multiple house batteries, microwave, etc. I did install Permatrims a few years ago, I like them and believe worth the money, but the gas mileage has stayed the same.