anchoring a CD-25

drjohn71a · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:47 am Post subject:

Spike,

Each windlass has chain size(s) and types for which it is specifically designed.

Yes, there is an attachment of chain to rope involved and some windlasses are more finicky than others about how smooth that transition needs to be.

You can buy pre-made anchor lines with rope/chain already connected per that manufacturer's specs. Dr. Bob of Thataway has posted photos of a good way to taper that attachment, I believe.

John

Dreamer · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject:

Nick, Right you are, Kellet not kettle. Too many happy hours has affected my brain!

thataway · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject:

Although we carried a 30 lb lead Kellet, we never used it in thousands of miles of cruising. It can induce chafe on the rode, it is another "string" to foul, and although it might decrease the surge in some conditions, in ultimate conditions the chain/rode will be bar tight. So we all have our opinions--and what works for each of us is what we do.

I use 1/4" HT chain on the C Dories/Tom Cats, that is what the Windlasses are calibrated for. We use 50 feet on both boats. We back it with 300 feet of 1/2 " nylon 3 strand. We have not had any slippage problems.

We have used braided lines. Not sure about the Yale one, but the others we have used (Marlow, Sampson) had less stretch than 3 strand.

Agree that a snubber is very good to use. We have not been using one on this cruise, just because there has never been any significant load on the anchor--mostly calm nights in protected coves. If there is any wind etc, I would use the snubber every time.

The extra line to an amidships cleat is not much of a bother--and will help the sailing--but it is not a perfect solution.

McDipple · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject:

This is a decent paper on anchoring from Yale.

http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/anchoring_tech.pdf

thataway · Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject:

The "paper" is basically an advertisement for Yale's Brait. I have not used this product, so have no first hand experience. But several questions come to mind. First is abrasion resistance, second is how well it works in the self tailing windlasses which we use?

Yes, shock absorption is important, and that is why I suggest a snubber of light line in heavy conditions. This transfers abrasion as well as elastic shock absorbing ability to the short, replaciable piece of thinner line, which can be protected from abrasion with plastic tubing or small diameter fire hose slipped over the rope.

On the other hand, how often will you submit a C Dory to 900 or 1200 lbs of working load on the anchor? How many anchors will hold in that load?

I stick to what I know--and that is 3 strand nylon.

For a good book on anchoring, I suggest Earl Hinz's "Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" It is somewhat dated because of newer anchors--and perhaps by newer rodes--but had some very excellent suggestions, and should be in every serious boater's library.

Lucky Day · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject:

Does anyone have a photo of how to rig a bridle? I want to reduce the sailing at anchor. I find it hard to relax when the view of the shoreline is constantly changing. The boat just doesn't "feel" at rest. A photo would be great. Thanks.

thataway · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject:

We tried rigging a bridle on the CD 25 last summer: flat water, 20 or so knots of breeze, steady direction. The bridle did not help the sailing. The boat sailed as much or more. We tried many different combinations, including attatchment point at the towing eye for the foreward line. Using two lines on one side, one bow, and one amidships and one bow and one aft. Classically, you put a rolling hitch on the anchor rode with another line. Preferably this is slightly lighter than the main rode, and then take this line to the cleat near the pilot house window.

Probably the best choice is to drop another anchor beyond the extreme arc of the swing, or anchor for and aft (which is advisable under some specific conditions.

Lucky Day · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject:

OK - Thanks for your response. I now have a plow on about 15' of chain spliced into rope rode running through a windlass. I tried a 15 pound river anchor (a modified mushroom type) in a hammerlock moor off the bow, but it's not heavy enough to stop the sailing and I'm reluctant to go to a heavier one. I am carrying a disassembled Fortress FX-11 on braided line as a spare. I had intended to mount the Fortress as the primary anchor, but the shaft is too long for the rest of the gear at the bow. Boat's on the hard now but next time out I'll try setting the Fortress at the end of the swing in the configuration you describe. Thanks again.

starcrafttom · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject:

Sorry for coming to this late but I have a question, a really simple question. What is the real problem and whats causing it. I know you all put in some really great answers for how to anchor and I agree with all of them. They all have their time and place. But what I noticed was that no one asked why he was swinging. Lucky stated that he was swinging in the wind and swinging more as the wind got worse. Well you should swing less as the wind gets worse. a c-dory is like a weather vain. the more wind the harder it is to move from side to side UNLESS you are not tied off to the center of the bow. Now all of us that anchor a lot and have a lot of experience know this, but lucky stated in the first post that he does not anchor a lot. If his boat has a chock on either side of the bow he maybe setting his line off of the side of the bow, this will cause the boat to swing side to side and I have seen a lot of folks, think bayliner, do this. They think the rope goes thru the chock, thats why its there right. Now I don't know if this is the case with lucky or not but I had to ask, none of the above ideas will help if his line is off center. Now my idea does not hold up if tide and wind are against each other. For that a rear anchor would do the trick.

Lucky Day · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject:

My 25 definitely sails the radius-arc of the anchor's rode. With the rode running out directly over the bow, or set off to either side of the bow, it sails at anchor in even light winds. Perhaps the 22's behave differently?

thataway · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject:

Because of the large amount of windage foreward, and very little lateral resistance in the water, as the boat starts to oscillate back and forth sightly, The windage on the bow will cause it to go one way and the other. Wind is never exactly in one direction (as those of us who have done a lot of sailboat racing can attest. The boat will reach a certain point, and then come up short on the anchor rode, and then start back toward the other side

Even heavy winds (the most I have anchored in is 90 knots--not in a C Dory) the boat will sail to some degree. I have dealt with boats in one of the bayou's in winds in excess of 100 knots (makes for exciting time on the water!)--and the sail all over the place--causing damage) Some boats will lay better to a bridle. Generally those with a keel will do better. Some boats use a small sail aft to keep the boat weather cocked. If the boat had a lot of windage aft, she is more likely to weather cock.

My experiments this summer involved using the bow eye as an attatchment point, as well as the anchor pulpit.

I would not suggest the Fortress as a primary anchor. The reason is that once it is tripped (sudden reversal of direction of pull on the anchor rode, or even sailing to an extreme)--the anchor is light enough that it will not re set--it will plane or float over the surface of the sea floor.
A heavy chain or Kellet may also help to decrease the "sailing" at anchor.

john schuler · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: sailing at anchor

All boats do that to a greater or lesser amount. I toss out a downrigger ball
about 10 lb. on a short scope (2 to 1). Works well on a CD-25.
john schuler

starcrafttom · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject:

Well yeah they all do it a little but I have never had my 22 do it a lot. No boat will ever just sit tight on a anchor , well unless you are in a river. The only time i have had a lot of sailing is when the tide and the wind are going against one another in a big way or when the wind is shifting alot. My biggest problem is dragging and thats because I have to little chain.

Rob & Karen · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject:

Valkyrie · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:58 pm Post subject:

Anchoring in a river is a completely different story on a sailboat. Years ago I was cruising in company with a Sparkman and Stephens 35 which had a very bad night at anchor in the Hudson River.

A sailboat's keel is like and airplane wing on end and actually has "lift" just like its counterpart does. The swift current, and heavy winds, caused this boat to do tight figure-eights all night at anchor, causing me endless fascination and worry for my friends (and my boat anchored nearby) and causing them a restless night, dizziness and disorientation, along with accompanying nausea!

Nick
"Valkyrie"