Fountain of hydraulic fluid today

Will-C

Hi,
Being just a lurker I'm having trouble understanding why the dealer and or the factory is not out on a field service call with the factory bleeder or a new pump to correct an obvious warranty issue. The dealer who sold that boat if he is still a dealer should be getting a call from the factory saying make this right as this should have been done before delivery. For a boat that costs more than a row home in Phila. this is a pitiful display of a Missouri or now Washington state warranty which states when it breaks you get to keep both halves. I no longer want to buy a new C-Dory. I'll buy a used 02 or 03 as suggested by some since the C- Brats offer better support than the company who manufactured the product. Thats sad!Considering the current economic conditions and especially the boating industry; dealers and manufactures who step up to the plate to make things right will win in the long run from the testimonials of satisfied customers. I don't believe a word of the marketing drivel I see on new products. I base my purchasing decisions on real customer reviews and feed back. Even if the end user had something relating to getting air into the system the boat I assume this boat has a warranty. Thanks to the honesty I see on this site I ever be disappointed by a warranty failure on a new C-Dory.
Thanks from a used wanta be still lurking
D.D.

matt_unique

Wefings · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:35 am Post subject:

The question here is who rigged the boat and set up the steering , and was it altered and by whom ? This is apparently a rigging issue.
Marc .

thataway · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:47 am Post subject:

I have bled and installed a number of hyraulic systems. The difference in the power system is that there is a resivoir, and you don't keep have to be pouring in fluid to the pump, plus it takes considerably less time/one less person. Definately worth having for any shop who does this regularly. I suspect that a system could be made for much less than the Sea Star factory cost.

Marc--maybe you have had some feedback on my pump failure (almost 2 years ago)--and was that a rigging error, or failure of the seals? I sent the pump back with your tech to go to the factory for an "Autopsy".

Dave Deem's comments might be a little harsh, since the factory has really not had time to respond...but if I was looking for a used boat, consider that the change of ownership was in 2002. Although the 22's seemed to have little problems, the 25's did have some from the get go under the new ownership until about 2005. On the other hand, if this is a Teleflex/Sea Star defect, then it is not C Dory's problem, and Matt had the engines changed, and I believe the hyraulic rams also changed, so it may be a dealer problem. I wrote a private letter to Rich Finlay (New CEO of C Dory), and suggested that C Dory vet the dealers and capabilities very carefully as one suggestion for improved image.

matt_unique · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Steering

SGIRhino · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: Dealer Vetting Process

Obviously dealers that are inspected through Gucci shades by a guy driving a Porsche with his Italian soled shoes may not be the best choice as to where to purchase a new boat. On the other hand there are dealers that are dedicated to the satisfaction of their customers and are still here serving them while the other guys (both dealers and Gucci wearers) have been voted out of business by either the factory or the customers...or both!

A new boat purchased from a reputable dealer is still and always will be one of the best choices from a standpoint of customer service and warranty support! Remember, the factory hull warranty does not transfer to the second or subsequent owners!

Fear not fair "Lurker" you shan't be left abandoned or on your own if you decide to purchase new, (at least not from us)!

Charlie Holtom, Wefing's Marine, Inc.

Jazzmanic · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject:

Dave Deem,

I challenge you to come up with one circumstance where the factory has not stepped up to the plate regarding warranty issues. Granted, there have been quality issues over the past few years and hopefully the new ownership will address those issues in short order but I can tell you that they've always stood by their product and their warranty. Why don't you ask the owners of CatyMae or FishTales (now C-Hawk)? It may have taken awhile but they both have new boats.

Peter
Owner of 2005 C-Dory 22 and proud of it!

Wefings · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:

Bob , yours was a bad seal in the helm . We saw it with some of our other boats in that time frame as well [Twin Vee] It was an OEM problem . Just replaced a leaker in a 2006 19 foot C Dory the other day . Nobody's perfect , its how the problem is handled that counts......
Marc

Will-C · Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: fountain of hydraulic fluid today

Hi,
I wanted to correct the last line of my previous post. Thanks to the honesty I see on this site I will never be disappointed by a warranty failure on a new C-Dory. Reasons such as this and the Fishtales type of tail and how the whole C-Brat brotherhood seemed to have to get involved to get results are just too much for me to want to plunk down the dollars for a new C-Dory. Combined with the way the newer boats are being built I don't get a good feeling.
Harsh, maybe, rigging problem, maybe, but as Bob suggests the new owners really need to make sure that the dealers know and are up to the expectations of the market and not just be internet type box or boat pushers. The dealer needs to stay involved to protect themselves and the end users and ultimately C-Dory's reputation. It just seems to me as a prospective customer possibly spending 55 to 70k that in my opinion the jury is out as whether the new owners will be able to do that. I have noticed a number of posts that speak to bleeding of the hydraulic steering that it does not always seem get the attention from the dealers it deserves. Since losing steering is a least in my world a serious safety concern. C-Dory ought to require or offer training for dealers and at least require the dealer to have a power bleeder as part of a basic dealer requirement so that your steering can be the best it can be. At any rate I'll
be looking at used boats instead of new until the new owners have had a chance to sort through what have been the problems.
D.D.

matt_unique · Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: Steering not fixed

The last time I was on the boat I had the steering system bled by an authorized Seastar shop. Seastar tech support also thought my problems were caused from improper bleeding. The bleeding was to be the first step.

Well when I arrived today and turned to port I had the tell tale "bumpy wheel" indicative of air bubbles/low fluid in the system. I will add some fluid in the morning and use it for the day but I suspect I need a helm replacement.

I'll keep you posted on the resolution.

matt_unique · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Well

Well today I was again hard to starboard, put it in reverse, and the fluid sprayed out again.

So the bleeding did not work. I can't think of any other possible fix other than to replace the helm.

Will contact Frank Monday to get the approval for the helm replacement (or some other currently unknown fix).

thataway · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject:

I would suggest going directly to Teleflex. I don't have the vice president's, who I talked to , name present with me. However Teleflex if definately aware of this problem--especially if there were bad seals. Your boat was made within that peroid. The dealer would do the installation, but Teleflex would pay for it, and send the new pump.

matt_unique · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: Pump

matt_unique · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Hell of an afternoon....

Well the latest round of steering trouble shooting proved that the helm pump is bad. They tested the pistons (disconnecting them from the hydraulic system) and layed the engines slightly over to see if they would continue to move. Seastar told the yacht yard doing the work that if a piston was bad, the engine with the bad piston would move all the way over within 30 minutes. After several hours only one piston moved a slight distance. Not sure if this is even enough to consider it a bad piston. Assuming no, the only thing left is the helm pump.

They then had to rebleed the system. I launched the boat to bring it back to my mooring.

Well we had strong winds today. As I was backing away from my trailer, fluid once again sprayed out of the helm and I completely lost steerage! I had zero steerage except for what I could do with the counter rotating engines. I was close to getting blown onto shore and into other boats. It was a ball buster 10 minutes but I managed to avoid any disaster and grabbed somebody else's mooring. I called the yacht yard and the mechanic working on my steering returned with a boat to tow me back to the dock.

To add insult to injury, this yacht yard charged me for more hours than the original estimate. They said they were following the instructions from Seastar so I hope C-Dory will reimburse the cost.

The fun is not over....I determined that by replacing the lost fluid, I would get steerage. I now know it will blow out while hard in reverse (i.e. backing away from a trailer or dock in strong winds). I tested it for 15 minutes straight before I left the dock. I was gun shy after my first experience of near disaster. As I was heading back from the mooring to the dock, we were hit with a micro-burst storm cell. I mean fire and brimstone. The wind was blowing hard and the waves kicked up in addition to close lightning and driving rain. I honestly thought for a short time the winds and waves would capsize my inflatable. I was able to get to shore after a hairy ride of careful balancing. At one point I had water pouring in over the bow and had to lean back to lift her up. I was cruising along just over headway speed. Anyway - I made it back. As I was walking up the ramp, I heard the Pan Pan call on a nearby VHF, a sailboat just off the ramp capsized and sank! The harbor master arrived to rescue two people standing beside their keel. Within a few minutes the only visible portion of the sailboat was the bottom of the tip of the bow.

So...morale of the story...unfortunately a reminder and not a new experience for me....trust no one...get all estimates in writing with written instructions that say you will not pay a cent above the estimate without executing another document signed by both parties.

I look forward to putting this day behind me....and the damn steering is still not fixed.

I'm fit to be tied....

thataway · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject:

Sort of hard to figure why Sea Star (Teleflex) did not replace the pump--or at least have appropiate testing done immediately. Especially since this is a "known" problem. Basically exactly the same problem I had 2 years ago--and Sea Star immediately air freighted overnight (Friday to Saturday) the new Helm pump. I think the moral of this is to go right to the top. I was boiling mad when mine failed-as yours did-and I had out of town guests. I asked for the president of the company--and got a VP who helped me immediately--plus I had phoned Jeff Messmer and had him contact Sea Star at the same time. (Fortunately I had another boat to take the guests in).

At this point I assume that Sea Star is sending a new pump--ASAP--but it is a holiday weekend, so that means at least Monday before anything is done. I would go right to the top with your story and see what can be done....including billing back to Sea Star for all of the costs, since they were in the loop from day one!.