gpsmap 741xs by garmin

colbysmith · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:35 am Post subject:

Thanks Roger. Right now my intent is to keep the 541S for a backup, but get rid of my current radar and navman. I too have a concern about everything on one screen. And like you, I have used my radar several times where it has come in very handy in thick fog, or even at night. My iPad only has wireless, so use of that as a nav aid is pretty much worthless. Nor do I have a smart phone. (To cheap to get into all the cell data stuff....) I'm thinking I should maybe look a little more into the 8" and 10" garmin units. The 10" may very well be too big for what space exists. Again, I like to see out the windows too. Smile

The 8" may be a compromise and not too much more expensive. Also debating if I should buy one soon just to get a few more weeks trial out of it, or just wait until spring. (That would give me more time to review them more and perhaps some sale prices in the spring...) Those with the Garmin units, how many have the GCV10 Sonar bundle, and are you happy with it? Does anyone have the GPSMAP 841 unit? Same goes for the radar. I see several Garmin radar domes will work, but trying to keep costs down some, I would be looking at the Garmin GMR 18HD 4KW High Definition Digital Radar (not the 18Xhd model). Think what it comes down to, is I'm really considering the Garmin GPSMAP 741xs, compared to the next two larger units. Would like to know if others have these units and how they are working for them, and what other electronics they have attached to them. Lastly, wondering how I could use sidevu, or if it is worth it. (The downvu makes sense...) Colby

colbysmith · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:49 am Post subject:

TO clarify, when I speak of using the chart and depth sounding together, I'm thinking of my current unit where I mostly run it in "Chart", but it still shows depth. (I can go to Sonar page to get the sonar picture, or I can select split screen sonar and navigation. But mostly I just run it in Navigation where it shows the GPS chart, but has one box showing my depth...at least when it's working correctly... rather than just flashing... Sad

I don't remember offhand without going out to the boat and turning it on, but I believe the navigation page allows me to set up a few boxes on it, and depth was one I like to keep in front of me all the time. Smile

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:02 am Post subject:

We have the 741xs unit and XHD 18 radar and are liking the combo very much. We use the vision charts for quick, automated, route planning on the unit itself and are impressed with the radar performance over our regular HD unit in the past and also love the wifi options for display. I have setup some combo screens to show three panels at once so I think radar, sonar, and chart would be possible but the screen gets a little small for that much info. I use a small color Garmin 78s (I trust it most) with G2 charts to always show the chartview as a backup or complement to our 741. That allows me to have the 741 showing all sonar or sonar and fisheye view full screen. If I were to have just one unit and not any second screens, I would go to the 8-10 inch size for a better split view experience. I really like to see a couple of chart scales at once while driving. One zoomed in, one zoomed out. The 7 inch screen is best for one good view at a time or two for limited periods. I have good vision so that is not a factor for me.

The boat came with a Lowrance Gen 1 unit like roger replaced and it did not make me smile even with added charts. I am a navigation device person (GIS field data specialist and wilderness nav instructor) and have limited patience for subpar devices/data. I know a slick unit when I see it and the 741 is one of those for sure. The only problem we have had was that radar did not show up as existing on the screen one day until I restarted the unit. Has not re-occurred again?

Greg

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:12 pm Post subject:

If anyone wants something tested or checked out on the 741 just let me know. I can run it in the boatshed and post pics. We do not have the sidescan box with our unit. I am not that interested in more sonar capability yet. We only fish occasionally and mostly bottom fish. We are happy enough with traditional sonar and "downview".

Greg

Da Nag · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject:

And, to toss yet another log on the fire...check out the Simrad NSS evo2 units. Still taking a close look at all options, but I'm pretty certain that's what I'll be installing over the winter.

I hate the iPad direction most MFD's are going these days. Touch screens are wonderful for some things, but absolutely dreadful for others. Simrad has hit the ball outta the park in this respect, IMO - the combination of their rotary knob and buttons, combined with touchscreen gives you the best of both worlds. Pick whichever one you want for virtually any function.

Ergonomics of the knob/buttons are excellent as well, assuming you are right-handed. Rest your right hand on the upper right corner of the display, and you can reach every needed manual control without moving your hand. They are intelligently placed, and you'll quickly be using them without looking at their labels to see what they do.

So yeah...I take exception to the common claim of "Garmin has the best interface" observation. I spent quite a bit of time with both at West Marine recently, and Garmin was a distant second for me. That being said, of the MFD's that are designed to be controlled primarily by touchscreen - I did like Garmin's implementation of this inferior interface choice the best... Mr. Green

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject:

Touchscreen thoughts:

The touchscreen on the 741 is worlds ahead of even the 740 so they are changing quickly and experience with an older one is not really relevant.

If you are not "used to" the action of a touchscreen from perhaps using a tablet or smartphone regularly and happily, then a touchscreen will likely be less satisfying for you than buttons. I used to be part of that group.

If you will use the screen in the open air, where rain/water/wet hands will be part of the scenario, then touchscreens can be annoying as they still get a bit confused with water on the screen. Older screens were terrible but they are improving fast.

If you are using a boat in rough conditions or running your boat fast in rougher water and need to interact with the screen while bouncing all around, a touch screen will also not work as well for you in general. Although they are simplifying the interfaces to the point that most touchable items on screen are getting larger and larger so this is also improving as the interface designs evolve.

A touch screen can be made much more waterproof than the average keypad due to the membrane behind the keys. That is the weakness of keys over the long term. Debris or salt settles in the creases in that membrane and rub through over time to create a little rubber water pump usually pumping the way you don't want it to.
This could be a factor for someone but see by above point for the conflicted nature of this fact.

The key to successful touchscreens is the interface design. If you put a fancy screen over a clunky older workflow with undersized items, it is very hard to love it. Too many companies mixed the two worlds badly in the beginning but the gems are starting to come out now.

We use ours in a comfy dry cabin and rough conditions are generally avoided for wife comfort so it works perfect in our Dory.

One word that puts the Garmin at the top of the heap for us Guidance

We can plot a long route in seconds and see how far away those gas docks are and make decisions on the route with no guessing or waypoint/route maneuvering. Its what most of us do in the car but only Garmin does it somewhat intelligently on the water.

From Garmin:

Guide To is only available when using a BlueChart g2 Vision card in a compatible chartplotter or sounder. The Guide To option will provide a turn by turn navigation line to the destination avoiding land and other obstacles. This navigation line will be based on the BlueChart g2 mapping data and three user defined settings on the chartplotter. The three settings are Safe Depth, Safe Height, and Shoreline Distance. The chartplotter will look at all of this information and provide a navigation line avoiding any area that cannot be navigated to the destination.

Greg

Da Nag · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject:

Good points, Greg - and while they may be improving, you listed several issues that aptly illustrate why I can't stand a touchscreen only interface. The one that I can't ever see being resolved - the "bouncy" issue. When different touches/taps/gestures are required for different functions, these inputs will always be more difficult when things are not completely stationary.

Another touchscreen issue - clarity. Yes, screens have improved drastically in this regard, both in durability as well as the ability to display images when the underlying surface is not 100% clean. However, there's still quite a difference between a clean and not-so-clean screen...and with touchscreen only, they'll dirty up significantly faster.

Lastly, RE automatic routing - that's evidently not a technical hurdle, as Simrad offers it as well. Unfortunately, not in North America - yet. The leading theory/rumor being, that it's a recipe for lawsuits...but if so, that's obviously something Garmin has addressed to their attorneys' satisfaction. Simrad has automatic routing available for both Navionics and C-Map in other countries...which also illustrates another reason I'm looking at Simrad. I could be mistaken, but to my knowledge - nobody else offers your choice of cartography from both vendors in the same unit.

Aurelia · Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject:

I can envision the touch screen Rough Water screen cover. A plastic grid you stick your finger through to keep your finger from moving around too much Smile

An old ice cube tray grid could be the prototype.

Having choices is great and that is why I don't like my work Iphone. But good data is all you need and I have always put Garmin in the good category for datasets. None is perfect, all has defects in design and maintenance not to mention the canyon between user expectations and data realities. I design spatial data sets for transportation and other infrastructure at work and it is hard to do everything for everyone. GIS data development staff time is our current limiting factor.

Back on topic, the 741 vision charts have something called fisheye view that is really not as gimmicky as some of the others. It shows a 3d chart modeled underwater view from below your transducer location and even shows sonar hits/fish in the view if you activate sonar logging.

I use it for anchoring near underwater slopes (we had it on the 25 as well) more than anything else. It also helped Cindie more quickly understand how the transducer works.

http://garmin.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451bb7069e2017d412e9e2e970c

http://www.garminmarine.com.au/assets/large/Mariners-Eye-3D-for-home-page-7000-screen-too.jpg

colbysmith · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject:

Greg and Bill, thanks for your comments. As I said earlier, I desire to stay with Garmin as I don't want to give up Garmin software & charts that I already have. At this point I am now leaning heavily towards the Garmin GPSMAP 840xs. A little larger screen, not that much more in cost, and not so big as to take over the helm. Still more questions about downvu and sidevu. The downvu looks like a really nice view of what's beneath the boat, if I am understanding the pictures well. I believe this also gives me depth readings. Not sure what sidevu would give me. From what I am beginning to understand, I don't need that GVC10 unit for downvu. I can just use the transducer that they include with the main unit, when a transducer is included. Also regarding the radar. What is the difference between the 18XHD and the 18HD? I would like something that will do just as well as my old RayMarine Pathfinder 72+ B&W unit. IOW, something that paints land, other boats, and some weather. Colby

Aurelia · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject:

We do not have the black box and just use the optional downview transducer to enjoy that feature with the 741. To add the sideview option, it looks like you have to get the GCV10 box plus have a capable transducer. I am not sure if a downview transducer comes packaged with the 840 units as an option. Ours were separate and we use the All-in-one HD-ID and DownVü Transducer (8-pin)

This page makes the levels of sonar a bit clearer:

http://sites.garmin.com/clearvu-scanning/

We have used both the HD and xHD RADAR and the XHD provides a variety of colors to show strength of returns with more distinction and offers a faster refresh/rotate rate as well. We like it and feel like its worth it if buying new and buying a MFD that supports the xHD. If you just want basic RADAR and want to save some bucks, the regular HD works well also and took us through some foggy conditions on Aurelia with confidence or at least less apprehension.

Greg

colbysmith · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject:

Thanks for that link. Think I can get by with out the sidevu. But the downvu does look like a very nice feature. Back to the HD and XHD 18 Garmin Radar domes, guess I need to see some demo's of both of them to decide. I'm guessing that even the HD would be an improvement over my old Ray Marine B&W unit. But even it could pick out flocks of birds at 1/4 mile! Smile

Sunbeam · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject:

colbysmith · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject:

Thanks Sunbeam. FWIW, I learned how to use radar while in the USCG. I think I'm pretty good using it, at least in aircraft. Smile

I actually thought the B&W worked pretty well, if one wasn't afraid to tweak it. My time in the airlines was primarily with newer color radar. I can't say it was really any better, just more colorful! Smile

So, in my case, I don't necessarily want to spend more money just to get more colors. As long as the radar it self still paints all the same objects, I can get by cheaper without needing more color differentiation. Colby