single v.twin engines - unnecsssary anxiety, perhaps

C-Nile · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject:

Bob Et. Al.,

You and I agree ninety-five percent of the time, but not on this. We did wiggle the connections. We changed trim -- nothing worked. It would work for several hours, and then out of the blue stop. What would you have me do next, hit it with a hammer? The whole point is that no amount of prayer, contemplation, and past experience may be enough to get a primary engine started when one is out on the water. In the past, we delt with magnetos, carberetors, points and relatively simple components. Now we have electronic, computerized systems with fuel injection. Short of changing a fuse and doing the obvious, one needs a diagnostic computer to determine the fault along with factory training and specialized equipment. One also must consider that if an engine is under warranty, and one does not know what one is doing, and damage results, that would probably invalidate the engine's warranty.

As for towing service descriptions, on the East Coast I use Seatow. It costs us about $165 per year, and covers the continental United States. If they don't have coverage in the area we are cruising, they will find a local provider for us, we will pay that provider, and they will reimburse us for the cost. When we used our Marinaut in the PNW, we were covered! Their boats are modern. When we were towed, Seatow came with a multi-hull, twin engine boat capable of cruising at forty knots. They then handed us off to another of their towing vessels that was also fast, powerful and well equipped.

So to those of you reading this who do not already have a towing subscription service, if it is available to you, I recommend it highly. Bob is right that we must take responsibility for ourselves. Having such a service and an auxiliary motor are very important in that regard.

Rich

thataway · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject:

Try and find Sea Tow on the West Coast--where are they in Seattle? The Delta?--How about 2 operations--Newport Beach and San Diego Calif.
How well will they pay? That is a bit of an unknown. Most of the towing operations are franchises--and depend on the quality of the person and boat. There was a white paper on this by the Coast Guard in 2005. There is no regulation of the industry.

Here is what happened to my neighbor, as published in a regional magazine:

TOWING VS SALVAGE:
BEWARE OF UNSCRUPULOUS TOWING COMPANIES Boaters should not assume anything when it comes to boat- ing. If you are a boater and have not taken a towing/salvage 101 course, let me speak from experience and recommend that you do not wait until you need a tow to find out the coverage you have. Trust me—there is a big difference in the cost. Most of the boaters that I know have some type of tow- ing insurance. However, there are different levels of cover- age just as any other types of insurance. You should take the time to read and understand the amount of coverage you have. For example, do you know the difference in a simple tow, a soft grounding, a hard grounding, and salvage?
On November 14, I had a very unpleasant experience in my 72-foot houseboat when a very strong wind picked it up during the night of an overnight trip and caused my stern anchor to drag and blew me parallel to the beach. The wind also caused the tide to go out very fast, leaving me in very shallow water. At 6 a.m. the next morning, when I awoke to find that I had a problem, my boat was still floating, but I would need some help to have it pulled into deeper water.
I called my towing service and explained my situation to them and advised them that the tide was still going out and very fast. I was asked if I/we, or my boat was in any danger, and I told them that we were not. Even though they were only 35 to 40 minutes away from me, they did not arrive until 9:15 a.m., and by that time, I did not have any water under a large portion of my boat.
When the tow boat arrived, the captain determined that this was a “hard grounding” and had me sign the contract. He then attempted to pull my boat straight back parallel with the beach, but it would not move. Even though none of the conditions changed, other than he was going to pull the stern of the boat out away from the beach, the captain advised me that this was going to turn into “salvage” instead of a hard ground tow. I was not sure exactly what he
was talking about. However, he asked me if I had hull insurance and he wanted to see my insurance policy. He stated that my insurance company would not have a problem with his charge of $125 per foot ($9,000). I said but what about my $4,000 deductible? He said that he was sorry about that .He then had me initial the original contract showing it as a sal- vage. He then proceeded to place a large water pump on the back of my boat (though he never started the engine) and stuck oil-soaked rags in the engine compartment vents. He said this was to prevent water from coming into the engine compartment—which was not necessary because the water level never got high enough for any water to come into the vents. He then pulled the stern of the boat around into deep- er water and with the help of my two engines, the boat was backed off the sand. In the captain’s written report, he stat- ed that my boat was taking on water, which it was not, but I assume that was his justification for changing it to a sal- vage. The moral to this story is that had this been classified as a “hard ground tow” (and that is what it was), instead of a “salvage,” the captain would have earned approximately $1,000 which was covered by my unlimited towing cover-
age instead of the $9,000, of which I would have to pay $4,000. Had I known the difference in the types of “tows and salvage,” I would not have signed the agreement contract until I had a better understanding of why it was being changed from a tow to a salvage.
This occurred at Fort McRee Cove south of the Pensacola Naval Air Station.
C. C. “Neil” Thorsen Pensacola, FL

Yes, my neighbor didn't have adequate anchoring gear, he should have asked the other YC members near him for help. He should have taken videos of "Salvage"--but he was still out a bunch of bucks--and had an "unlimited" policy with his tow company!

Sometimes they will be there, and sometimes not.

Take that same money and buy a kicker--then no worry!

Oh, by the way--the tow I spoke of off Point Conception cost the boat owner almost $3,000, because he was out of the limits--and charged at $200 an hour (now days it is $250 an hour portal to portal)

C-Nile · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject:

Bob,
Everyone needs to do their homework. Seatow is a highly reputable organization, based upon my experience, so everything you stated shows I made the right decision. I don't live on the West Coast, so perhaps fellow C-Brats can comment on any good tow services they have available to them in that locale? This would benefit fellow C-Brats in selecting the best tow service for their area.

You bring up a good point about salvage vs. tow, which is a reason for having good boat insurance, and ironically is also a reason for having a kicker. Twice when we had the Cd 16 Cruiser we got into water too low to run the main engine. Seatow would not have been able to rescue us in those situations, since it would have been classified as a salvage operation. We got out with our kicker.

We totally agree that kickers are a necessity; that's a given. Where we don't agree is the necessity for a tow service. My wife and I have the wanderlust, so at times, we could be 80 miles or more from home. We don't want to travel to home port at 5.5 to 6 MPH. So I suppose that if someone travels less then 20 miles from home port, a towing service may not be as necessary. I still recommend getting the service, however, since I would not want to be caught in heavy seas with the main engine out, operating only with a kicker.

Again, it would be nice for fellow C-Brats to chime into this conversation on their tow service experiences in the interest of helping others.

Rich

Captains Cat · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject:

helm · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject:

I wish I had twins on the Chack Chack just so I could have this
http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/electronic-power-steering/optimus-360-outboard-control-system/

Eric

Aurelia · Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject:

We had twins and liked them but more for maneuvering than anything else.

We will stick with a spare small engine or two on our current boat plus tools and parts to push further with added effort. I have not used and do not plan to ever use a commercial tow service myself. I do have a brother who shuns tools and parts and planning and he has used tow services instead multiple times but usually doesn't roam very far from home.

I rescued and recovered unfortunate people in the wilderness for over a decade and reasonable preparedness plus adequate training/knowledge is just something I can't do without.

If I ever call on the Coast Guard, I know it will be for a darn good reason on a very bad day for us.

Cruising around in a day boat with a single motor in a familiar bay serviced and frequented by loads of boats is one situation.

Running a fishing boat with single motor as a professional with loads of experience and good habits is another.

I think most of the folks on this site are really in another category but I am not sure what to call it.

hardee · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:20 am Post subject:

Eric, Yes, i have looked at that system and it is pretty cool. Much of that I can do with my twins set up in the conventional system. The ability to steer each independently, and use the vectoring available would be super cool. Not likely to happen on my boat though --- $$$$$.

Gregg, you are right, And Dr Bob and other too, planning ahead, and self reliance is part of boating responsibly.

As to Sea Tow, (the yellow boats). Not much available on the west coast. The alternative on this side is TowBoat US (the red boats). Still pretty few and far between.

Best to know what you are doing, where you are, who is around you, what direction and speed they are doing, and keep situational awareness.

Harvey
SleepyC Moon

Robert H. Wilkinson · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject:

[quote="Yellowstone"]I'm absolutely amazed at the number of power boaters I have seen who have no anchoring system aboard, not to mention drogues or parachutes,

hardee · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject:

[quote="Robert H. Wilkinson"]

Robert H. Wilkinson · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject:

Haven't had any experience personally with a tow service(touch wood) but I have read some horror stories similar to the one in Bob's post. Be wary if the tow company calls it a salvage op. Of coarse if you are on rocks in - or with the possibility of rough seas then you might be at their mercy. In particular if your boat is in any danger of letting any fluids escape(oil, fuel or sewage). They can then charge you for enviromental cleanup and any additional precautions they have to take in order to contain the fluids onboard before towing. You could end up loosing your boat - and still owing them money if your insurance doesn't cover this. At my last renewal my company told me their standard home policy no longer covers enviromental cleanup from a leaking fuel oil tank. You have to add that as a rider if you want it.

Regards, Rob

thataway · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject:

At this time the Sea Tow Franchise in the Panama City/Pensacola area is good. I had some personal experience with the prior franchisee, since they were living (and running Sea Tow) out of a house I had previously owned. (Long story, but the fellow I sold it to died at age 46, and his sister took over the house--and a lot of my personal items which had been left there for the new owner to use--along with my 60 foot ham tower, which Sea Tow used, and then cut up and sold for scrap disappeared; GRRrrr. But those guys were a bunch of drunks. Lots of bad stories about them.

I also witnessedTow Boat US destroy a 40 foot trawler which had been deposited on the shore during a hurricane. They should have brought in a crane barge--and lifted it off the shore--as was done for many other boats. But it was cheaper to bridle the boat, and put 3 Tow Boat's on it--when they could not move it with static pulls, they backed off about 50 feet and revved up the boats so they could jerk it off the beach---they did, and drove both rudders,props, shafts and struts up thru the bottom of the boat. They did get the boat to the slings at the boat yard (about 100 yards away, ,just before the boat went entirely under water. It went from a boat with a few scratches to a total loss. No worry--the insurance company paid for that: not Boat US tow boat! (I kept videos of this for the owner's insurance company). I had done a mini survey and photographed the boat before the attempted "salvage".

The sea is a very harsh mistress, and I would not--do not--depend on someone else coming to save my behind. Too many bad things can happen in a very short time. There are some very good tow boat skippers, and a few who are not so good.

As for 5 to 6 knots--I have done many many thousands of miles at sea going that speed--not a bad way to travel! I guess it just depends on your philosophy of boating and life.

That reminds me--I have to finish updating my "bug out bag"--which goes with me in the boat and car all of the time.....self reliance is still necessary in todays world. Agree on the situational awareness--that is a very high priority. Especially in these dangerous times.

C-Nile · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:08 am Post subject:

I agree with you Bob about many things. My thought process is about risk mitigation. Risk mitigation is not necessarily a singular step one can take, but rather a multitude of preventive actions. My point from the beginning has been aligned with yours in that a second motor -- whether it be an auxiliary or second motor in a twin-motor setup, is excellent insurance, along with good maintenance, safety equipment (including adequate rode and anchor) and some spare parts and tools on board (within reason.) To me, a Sea Towing service is an additional step at risk mitigation if the organization is competent. I can tell you from personal experience that Seatow personnel along the Old Saybrook/Mystic Connecticut shorline are very professional, with year's of experience. One fine young man who helped us, for example, had been trained in the Coast Guard. We were also towed by the Manager of the Mystic area, and he was also very highly professional and competent. I simply cannot speak more highly of these people from having been on the receiving end of their excellent, professional services. And like I stated previously, I see them towing a lot of boats out on the Sound. So I'm sure there are a lot of horror stories out there, including your own, but this should not prevent people from using a good service so long as they do their homework first.

As for me -- I will continue to use Seatow as part of my overall risk mitigation effort.

Rich

Roscoe · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject:

Only slighty off topic, we have had twins all along, but when we bought C for Two new the only engines they could get quickly were Suzuki 40s. What a mistake. With only a little more than 200 hours on them, they both started overheating at random times. Had to replace them last summer, which cost us a lot of money and much of the summer, which in Maine is short anyway. We now have Yamaha 50s, which already sound better than the Suzukis ever did. We do think our experience was a fluke, and still believe two engines are better than one. Can't wait for next summer.