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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:22 am Post subject: |
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DaveS wrote: | Thank you Roger! That was fast.....16 minutes from my request for video footage to your having it posted on the "thread". | It would have been faster but I had to filter through a few videos and watch them to make sure I had the right ones . _________________ Roger on Meant to be |
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mcc272
Joined: 05 Jun 2008 Posts: 233 City/Region: Long Island Sound
State or Province: CT
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Star
Photos: C-Star
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I have faced this question and built myself a relatively inexpensive and highly useful little device sort of like Dr. Bob's fuel polisher. It consists of a 12V fuel pump from NAPA and a Racor filter. I mounted the pump on one side of a pine board and the filter on the other. The pump is wired to an on/off switch in the positive wire. The wires are 12 feet long and have alligator clips on the end. That keeps the battery, and any potential sparks in clipping to it, some distance from the fuel to be pumped. Add in some fuel hose to stick into the tank to be drained and into the receiver and you are good to go. No priming needed as it primes itself. The NAPA pump is not fast but it clicks away and drains out old fuel, cleaning it in the process. It can also be used to transfer fuel form the boat at the end of the season to the truck or vice versa especially since it goes through a good filter. All in all, the cost was relatively miniumal and the utility is high _________________ Jim
Connecticut Side of LI Sound
C-Star, 2004 22 Cruiser (sold 10/10)
North Star, 2011 Rosborough RF-246 |
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oldgrowth
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 2196 City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Voyager
Photos: C-Voyager
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have not tried it but I would think those vacuum pumps that suck out engine oil would also work for fuel. Usually your fuel level is not full at the end of the season so you would not be extracting a lot of gas. I know they make a 3.5 gallon size, maybe larger.
Dave
www.tolandmarine.com |
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Matt Gurnsey Dealer
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 Posts: 1532 City/Region: Port Orchard
State or Province: WA
Photos: Kitsap Marina
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Mythbusters tried very hard to get a shop vac to ignite fuel- and couldn't.
Still, it is not the prefferred method of extracting fuel. _________________ Matt Gurnsey
Kitsap Marina
www.kitsapmarina.com
360-895-2193
(888) 293-7991 |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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If you go to the Mythbusters web site, you will find that the first vac they used had a motor which was isolated from the fumes. The second short circuited,but did not ignite--my guess there is that the ratio to air and fuel was not proper. The third vacuum, did ignite fumes--an older model.
There are plenty of law suits and people in burn units who have suffered the bad results of using a shop vac and any explosive mixture.
Don't take the chance that the optimal ratio is not present or that the shop vac does not produce sparks which will ignite fumes.
I sat in a major burn unit waiting room for 6 weeks, with the wife of a very close friend who had been badly burned. I developed a good relationship with the head of the burn unit, and the most common cause of burns was some explosive fumes, set off by a spark--next most common cause was open heaters. Shop vacs played roles in at least 2 cases which were in the unit at that time.
As with Jim's post above--my fuel pump set up has any battery connections far from the fuel source, an ignition protected switch, and a fuel pump which is ignition protected. For example, I would not use my 12 volt oil change system to pump gasoline (although I have for diesel). It is not designed to specifically prevent ignition of fumes. _________________ Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL |
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jimcinfra
Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 76 City/Region: Crystal Springs, MS
State or Province: MS
C-Dory Year: 1999
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Delta Belle
Photos: Delta Belle
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Can we all agree that a miracle happened when I was protected from being blown up. Again I publicly proclaim that my Lord Jesus protected me from harm. Thank you C-brats for setting me straight. I will use a smarter method next time. _________________ Delta Belle
Crystal Srings, MS |
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Almas Only
Joined: 09 Nov 2003 Posts: 362 City/Region: Richmond
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 2003
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Alma's Only
Photos: Alma's Only
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Delta Belle, you’re right on – PTL. I second Dr. Bob’s implicit rejection of the Myth Busters conclusion, and will pass along my observations and opinions on the subject of getting gasoline out of tanks.
It is my strongest recommendation that you never, under any circumstances, use mechanical or electric powered pumps, or oil extractors, to get gasoline out of tanks, unless you REALLY know what you’re doing and are using an explosion-protected system. I know that establishing and maintaining a simple syphon can be a pain in the butt, and is slow going, but consider a couple of things about gasoline before you get too bold.
First, gas doesn’t burn, but it’s vapors do so with explosive force.
Second, gas vapors are heavier than air, which means that they don’t just go away into the atmosphere. Instead, they accumulate on the ground, around your feet, or in the oil extractor container, just waiting to be ignited.
Third, gas vapors in the right mixture with air are very easy to ignite, and just about any spark, even one generated by static electricity, will do the trick.
Fourth, when the vapors ignite, they will do so with sufficient force to vaporize gas that is still liquid, and make your problem even bigger.
Perhaps an example would help bring this home, and here’s one that I mentioned in posts some time back, and relate again from personal experience, not merely an unproven urban legend. A fellow working in an autobody repair shop wanted to cut apart a 55 gallon drum so it could be used on-site. He first confirmed that it was empty, with the top plug off, and then put a cutting torch to the side. The explosion of the residual gasoline vapors blew him across the room, and up against a concrete wall. He collapsed to the floor, stood up, said something to the effect of “I’m o.k.”, then collapsed again with brain damage sufficient to put him in a nursing home, where he spent the rest of his life sitting in a wheelchair, drooling on himself. Again, this incident, and its aftermath, are for real.
I think of this guy every time I want to take gasoline out of a tank, which is why I usually leave it right where it is, and just stabilize the snot out of it. That’s worked well over the winter. If I have to move it, it’s with a syphon, which probably isn’t risk free, but about the best I can do.
Good luck. _________________ 2003 CD22 Cruiser with Honda 90 |
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DaveS
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 3204 City/Region: Arlington
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Shift
Photos: Sea Shift
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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jimcinfra wrote: | Can we all agree that a miracle happened when I was protected from being blown up. Again I publicly proclaim that my Lord Jesus protected me from harm. Thank you C-brats for setting me straight. I will use a smarter method next time. |
Jim, I certainly hope that you don't feel that anyone is chastising you for the methods you utilized. Most certainly my comments (and I'm certain the comments of others) are meant to be only cautionary and an educational contribution as a reminder to ALL of us of the volatility of gasoline. Almas Only in the posting prior to this one mentions the occurrence of static electricity. That is why there are frequent reminders about folks filling fuel containers at gas stations while the containers are still in their vehicles. (Containers should be placed on the ground before filling). Fuel tank filler hoses at the gas pump are manufactured specifically to properly ground the hose to the vehicle as a prevention of catastrophic accidents. _________________ Dave S.
"Sea Shift"
C-Brat #16 |
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rogerbum
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 5922 City/Region: Kenmore
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2008
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Meant to be
Photos: SeaDNA
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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On a similar note relating to static electricity, fuel pumps at airports have a grounding cable that should be connected to the plane to discharge static electricity prior to fueling. Some planes even have small brushes that touch the ground on the taxi way to accomplish the discharge. Planes can build up a fairly high charge depending on air conditions. Gas cans on carpet in the car can also build static, especially the plastic ones. As Dave mentions above, placing them on the ground prior to filling discharges them. |
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lloyds
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 1724 City/Region: sublimity
State or Province: OR
C-Dory Year: 1996
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: undecided
Photos: 1996 22 Cruiser (Lloyds)
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I replied to this thread but it went into never never land, but my comment was that the neighbor kid used a shop vac to "borrow" fuel from his moms' car. It cost him his hair, his dirt bike, his moms' car, and their garage. Why Mythbusters couldn't start a fire with gas and a shop vac is truly a mystery. |
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Doryman
Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 3807 City/Region: Anacortes
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2006
C-Dory Model: 255 Tomcat
Vessel Name: Lori Ann
Photos: Lori Ann
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone have experience with the Safety Siphon?
Warren _________________ Doryman
M/V Lori Ann
TomCat 255, Hull #55, 150 Yamahas
Anacortes, WA
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fisherkb
Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 70 City/Region: Austin
State or Province: TX
C-Dory Year: 1989
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Slack Tide
Photos: C-Hunt
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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I have siphoned manually in the past but got sick of inhaling fumes even when being careful to have a dip to avoid the gas directly. I got a simple hand pump from harbor freight that worked out nicely and it was inexpensive. Here's a link to what I got:
http://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-66418.html
regards,
Karl |
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Sea Wolf
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 8650 City/Region: Redding
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 1987
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: Sea Wolf
Photos: Sea Wolf
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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If time is not a consideration, a siphon is the safest and easiest solution, providing you don't have to go uphill!
I've made my own out of a marine fuel squeeze bulb (tasteless prime) and a couple of sections of tubing for years. (Plus the hose clamps!)
Tygon tubing, which is clear, seems to work just fine, and seems to be gas and ethanol tolerant.
It really helps to be able to see what's happening through the clear tubing.
I've thought of adding some copper, steel, or aluminum tubing at the ends for weight, but never done it.
Air it out to dry before you store it below decks!
Why complicate it any more?
Joe. _________________ Sea Wolf, C-Brat #31
Lake Shasta, California
"Most of my money I spent on boats and women. The rest I squandered'. " -Annonymous |
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oldgrowth
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 2196 City/Region: Rochester
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2002
C-Dory Model: 16 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Voyager
Photos: C-Voyager
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Almas Only wrote: | It is my strongest recommendation that you never, under any circumstances, use oil extractors to get gasoline out of tanks.
gas vapors are heavier than air, which means that they don’t just go away into the atmosphere. Instead, they accumulate in the oil extractor container, just waiting to be ignited. |
I cut a lot of your post because I want to deal with just this part, not the rest because this is how I had planned on getting un-used gas out of my tanks.
You have a plastic oil extractor designed for petroleum products.
You pump it to create a vacuum then place a plastic hose in the fuel tank, open a plastic valve and the fuel is sucked out.
It is a closed system, no vapors.
How is that more dangerous than placing a plastic container designed for petroleum products on the ground and pumping gas into it from a pump?
Am I missing something here?
I agree you have to be careful with gas but if we were to avoid everything with some risk we would not be boating.
Joe – I agree with you a little common sense and caution and you can extract old gas when necessary. Unless someone can explain why it is more dangerous than filling a gas can, I will use the oil extractor.
Dave
www.tolandmarine.com |
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thataway
Joined: 02 Nov 2003 Posts: 20875 City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
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Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Warren,
I own one of the safety siphons and have used it on occasion--I also have a plastic syphon set with a squeeze bulb use to fill the Wallas stove container.
The point about static electricity is well taken--and It is always a concern when filling any gas tank. |
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