Kayak advice needed...

[AstoriaDave]

Boy, this discussion is a hot one for us! We also have debated how to carry kayaks on the Bartender, where the load issues are much more severe than they are in a 22 CD.

Perhaps I can save some time for others:

1. Folders: Most folders are impossible to assemble on deck; the beach is best, but I think Folbot's Citibot would be very doable on deck: US made, very light, easy to assemble; terrific warranty, and ideal for protected waters. Down sides: not a great boat for anybody over 230-250, and perhaps not as good in rough water as other craft with more freeboard. Folbot: http://www.folbot.com/kayaks/citibot/ There are no doubles I would recommend for this purpose.

2. Plastic: If you want a boat you can slam around and over rocks, oysters, etc., without worrying about the hull, get a plastic boat. Wilderness Systems has some "open cockpit" boats, edging towards the "recreational kayak" zone which are well made and have good value for the dollar. Better in rough water than the Citibot, but heavier, by quite a bit. the doubles are small for full-size folks, but ideal for people below 180 lbs each. WS 160T: http://www.wildernesssystems.com/pamlico-160t Note this one has a rudder, a critically important safety feature which will make sure you can get back to the boat, if the wind comes up. Check out the other Pamlicao models if you want a single for each person. Down side: plastic boats are heavy.

3. Glass (aka composite): Glass boats are expensive! If you really want a glass boat for its lighter weight and better performance, there is a wide range of choices. If you want a double, the Current Designs Kestrel 170T would be a best buy: http://www.cdkayak.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=134&SID=697a11cdec41b7b1a0b3a4658a65e100 Their Kestrel 140 is a trerific little single, with easy-entry cockpit, and very light weight (<40 lbs!!!): http://www.cdkayak.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=135&SID=697a11cdec41b7b1a0b3a4658a65e100

No affiliation with any of these companies, just a satisfied user of their products.

Happy paddling!

PS: inflatable kayaks are pigs in the wind and slow, slow dogs. Not recommended.

[tpbrady]

From my experience from a paddling perspective here is what to expect:

a. Inflatables take the most energy to move a given distance. If the weather cools off, they get even harder to paddle as they soften up. They are probably the most stable and easiest to board from a 22.
b. Foldable boats will go further for less energy than an inflatable if properly assembled. I don't recommend assembly on board.
c. Plastic boats are good utility boats. You don't have to worry about how your treat them. As a true kayak getting in and out from my 22 takes some practice and thought so you don't get wet. For my wife the best approach is to drop her off on the beach and then I bring the kayaks over. They paddle pretty well.
d. Glass or kevlar boats are by far the top of the line. A friend of mine has a glass boat I have taken a couple of times and getting it from the water up to the roof over the bow pretty easy. On the beach you can carry it with one hand holding onto the cockpit. They are the most efficient to paddle.

I can't recommend a double on a CD22. I have carried one on one trip, and it is not easy to load and unload especially with a radar arch. Without an arch it might be easier since you can pick it up for and aft and set it on the roof.

I saw the paddle boards in Hi last month. It is intriguing but I would have to wear a dry suit.

[jstates]

Fiberglass, plastic and inflatable - each has a place - not all inflatables are slow -

My Current Designs like Robi said is very fast - great for extended tours and even some surfing. You can cover a lot of distance - but make sure you know how to roll, wet exit and dress for immersion in the PNW even in summer.
When it comes to the CDory - I use it to get to a new location and then then convenience and safety of boarding an Aire Superlynx inflatable works well.

Many inflatables are slow but the Superlynx is designed with low wind profile, self bailing - reportedly the thickest air floor in the industry and cleary the best no fault ten year warranty. It is not slow especially when loaded correctly with one or two persons. It will handle very rough white water in an emergency -Though not a lot of creek bouldering as its built with minimal rocker. Carry a pump to add air to adjust for temp-load etc.

The transfer from CDory to a fiberglass kayak has its glass on glass challenges. Transfer from CDory to plastic boat - not much problem with plastic on fiberglass

Transfer from CDory to Inflatable like the Superlynx - incredibly easy with no major risks of damage to either boat - come to the Indian Cove CBGT if you want to try a Superlynx - I also have a white water Perception kayak you could try just to get the idea about the differences in entry.

One other aspect is the sit on top inflatable kayak can be great for two adults and a dog or two better behaved smaller grandchildren who tend to look over the same side at the same time. [short trips only]

I have used inflatable and plastic and fiberglass white water kayaks in white water- grade 3-4. Once you dump its very easy to re enter the inflatable kayak -- The Aire inflatables will work well in emergency storm conditions - two persons lying head to toe in the bottom of the kayak would be very stable - so it all depends on what you want to do.


Have fun
Jim

[drjohn71a]

I have the Hobie Mirage Adventure Island tri-hull sailing kayak. It is the Adventure sea kayak with outriggers.

While this tri-hull is more of a mess to store, it cannot be beat for long comfortable trips on a kayak. The Hobie Mirage pedal drive is a lifesaver - quiet, easy on the back, fast, and leaves your hands free to eat, take photos, fish, or hold a grandchild on your lap.

I have spent 8-10 hour days sailing on it with only brief breaks. This is possible because you can change your sitting/lying position easily when sailing, which is my most common source of propulsion.

Hobie makes many different models, but the long, narrow Adventure sea kayak is the easiest to paddle or pedal. They make a very short - 9 foot - Sport model that a grade school kid can load and operate alone.

Anyone using the sit-in, standard kayaks must keep up on their training to roll back upright. The "sit-on" rotomolded models may not seem as cool, but you can easily slide on and off them and can sit cross-wise, etc., as you please to avoid cramping. They are also almost indestructable around rocks, and sharp areas. It's possible to grind a hole in one over time, but you can "plastic weld" a patch if that happens.

The Adventure Island tri-hull, sailing rig is fun and goes right through the surf and wakes like a bullet. Just be sure to take a deep breath if it's a huge wave you're going through!

I am addicted to the thrill of being close to the water. You feel like you are going much faster than you really are. I learned to sail as a kid on a sail board and, as I got into larger and larger sailcraft over the years, I really missed that excitement of being right "in" or directly "upon" the water.

I hardly ever use the paddle, and mainly use the pedal drive to sneak up on wildlife, birds, or to dock the boat. You can run the rotomolded hull up on just about anything - ice, rocks, trees, whatever.

If you plan on spending long periods of time exploring on a kayak, the tri-hull Adventure Island Mirage is worth the trouble of storing the outriggers. They are light and only held in place by two elastic straps on each side. For short, quick paddling, you can just put the main hull in the water.

If you want the smallest, easiest to handle models, the little 9 ft Sport will go in and out of the water quickly but is more difficult to paddle/pedal long distances.

At any rate, the rigid hull kayaks are superior to inflatables in the normal range of technology. There may be some advanced design foldable that equals the rigid models, but I am not aware of it.

You know, just paddling a kayak around open water is kind of boring! BUT rigging up the tri-hull Adventure Island and screaming around waves and wakes is an absolute hoot - the thrill of many of my outings. To me, it's well worth the trouble of assembly.

I need to add the the Adventure Island is so stable you can stand up and walk around on it. Great for taking a break, stretching, fishing, whatever.


To put this in perspective, imagine you've spent a calm morning paddling your kayak to an interesting shore, had a good day there, but on your way back to the boat, an unfavorable wind picks up. That happens a lot around here. So you end up spending 4-6 hours paddling like a madman, with the wind blowing you off course and every time you rest, you slip back a few hundred yards... AAARRRGGHHH!

Now, imagine you are in the Adventure Island sailing rig. The wind comes up. You pull a cord and the fully battened sail unfurls on the rotating carbon fiber mast in a second. You tension the main sheet and kaboom! You are now having the time of your life in what could have been hours of torture! 25-30 mph winds are the most fun!

John

[tpbrady]

Jim,

My dinghy of choice is the Power Drifter, made the same way as the Aire inflatables (I think by the same company). The Aire inflatables do paddle well and the self bailing feature makes it nice to carry on the roof and not worry about filling up with water. I opted for the Power Drifter because I could put two seats in across the tubes to sit up off the floor and paddle it with kayak paddles.

[Alli Cat]

Joel,

We first bought an inflatable, though easy to carry it is not very comfortable and does not track well. We then bought 2 hard plastic kayaks (Prodigy 10) from REI. They weight 39 pounds and are 10 feet long. We carry both on the roof outside of the dingy. We love them and anyone who takes a spin is gone for hours. They are easy to enter and exit from the Alli Cat.

Fred

[TomRay]

[drjohn71a]

Compare that utube video to these Adventure Island Sailing videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klxckkyWQ_U&feature=PlayList&p=0E813A488C78C94F&playnext=1&index=4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUKxews21QA&feature=PlayList&p=0E813A488C78C94F&index=6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJOAIQgW348&NR=1

John

[Leo Smith]

Easy Rider Canoe and Kayak Company offers 3 models of small craft that would be suitable for dinghy duty. The Scout 13, The Sweetheart, and the Cub Scout are all versatile craft that can be paddled, rowed, or sailed. The Sweetheart is the lightest boat they build. It is a 12'6" kevlar canoe with a 35" beam and a 400 pound capacity. The weight is a mere 29 pounds! Easy Rider sells factory direct. Peter Kauput, the president of Easy Rider and the designer of these boats is a great guy to work with. www.easyriderkayaks.com

Best Regards,
Leo

[TomRay]

[TomRay]

[starcrafttom]

Lots of great boats here. I really like the sailing riggs. For the c-dory I would like a small, 10ft, boat to make shore calls in but I find it hard to spend over a grand on 50 lbs of plastic. Many of these boats are well over two grand. I'm sorry but thats just out of wack. a kayak should not be over a few hundred for a basic 10 to 12 foot boat. Hell I can buy a drift boat for under 2 grand. It just seems like a lot for very little. I want two small kayaks for the dory so I'm looking at old used ones.

[TomRay]

[drjohn71a]

The dollar cost comparison came to me as I was pricing a quality 8-10 foot inflatable with engine for my TomCat. I kept thinking,"All that money and no fun?" That is why I got the Adventure Island Sail Kayak. Less money out, more fun in!

On the Hobie Adventure Island owner's site they have threads about guys routinely going to Catalina Island camping and fishing in these sailing kayaks. Also, racing them around from the East Coast of Florida to Texas, even running at night. How many of you would do that in your dinghy?

John

[20dauntless]

Fred, how do you have your Kayaks mounted? Any pictures?

Tom, the kayaks we got (Ocean Kayak Fenzy, 9 ft) cost $450 each from REI. Not cheap, but not terrible either. We also got scupper plugs for them and seats which cost a little bit more, and paddles are expensive if you don't already have them. If you are an REI member you get 8% back at the end of the year on all purchases too. And like I said before, I don't know how you could break these things unless you tried to burn it. You may be able to find some good deals on Craigslist or check out the kayak rental places at the end of the season when they sell all their gear.