R-21 ec more hp ?

[Les Lampman]

[IT-SEA-BIT-C]

thanks for replys all/ i sent a e-mail with questions to fact. on thier site keep u posted on results about more hp.i know there is a lot small boats simillar to the 21ec out there / kinda have my heart set on 21ce. that volvo 40 sounds insteresting ? i read about in a post somewhere here but no real preformance info un fourtunatly .another thread here is about the 25 with cummins&more hp so im thinking the 21 may not be too far off. I know most of my cruising would be at 5 to 7 kts and that would be fine with me but a few more knts and im sold .I would hate to buy one with no power and have to butcher a 50 or say a 75 in it but whatever it takes is the only way ill purchase .hey wefings can i get a demo ? i"ll be in florida (west palm) w/girlfriend to visit her mom as soon as i know it"s not going to snow any more (com. snowplow contracts - can"t go to far) guess early april . where are u guy located? always hear good things on this site about u guys thanks-gang hope to hear from u soon...john

[IT-SEA-BIT-C]

well got a response from Jeff at factory he said "no room to fit anything larger than yan 30" also said it works "pretty well"????? guess id have to agree it doesnt work well.............dissapointed,,john

[K7MXE]

I thought someone near Seattle repowered with like 40hp last year and
not long after that the boat was for sale.
That is if I remember right. It may be in the Ranger archives somewhere.
Myself I don't use the 30hp most of the time but if I wanted to go fast I
surely would got a CD22. The slow speed of the Ranger is fine with me.
Good luck on your search for the perfect boat.
Bob Heselberg Eatonville Wa

ps good to see you on here Les, getting the boat
ready for a trip in land of the Byrd..

[IT-SEA-BIT-C]

k7mxe,Ikeep hearing about this myesterous volvo 40? couldent get any info from the factory about it .re read my previuos post about it and wish now i worded it differently ,did not mean for it to come out so negativly,kinda had my hopes up they would work with tryin to install a pinch more hp . i"m very interested in buying a 21 and like it alot , most times i would be happy with hull speed of 5-7 mph,but it sure would be nice to go a bit faster at times,they advertised new tug in brouchure saying"higher speeds" "bringing more cruise destinations whithin easy reach ",imean come on 2mph? 3mph?more speed? ,a one way cruise of 25 to 30 mi,5 to 6 hrs?please dont take me the wrong way /but u know how it is mabey a long 10 mile streach in bad weather/or tryin to stay to stay ahead of it a few mph would be nice.i really do appriceate all info-disscussions on this site i"ve always done a little reasearch on any major purchases; and cant even find any info on 21ec anywhere?can u ?thats mostly what i"m asking for. from what i"ve heard here i didn"t think installing a 50 horse would be impossible ,im by no means rich but ,i would be willing to pay for engine up-grade . my apoliges to jeff or anyone i may have offended. if the price is fair without power i'm gonna try it myself.ive read all the posts many times hope more 21 owners will chime in any info /ideas/handeling /abilites ?are greatly appriecated .........john

[JamesTXSD]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but (as usual) find it hard to keep my mouth shut at times. A manufacturer would be setting themselves up for a real liability problem by building a hull for an unresearched powerplant. Home building or custom building would get you whatever your dollars want. Builders like Ranger and C-Dory offer specific models; deviation from those models results in more costs and manhours.

There is a reason that manufactures state that some modifications will void the factory warranty. Hounding them won't change that. If you called your local Chevy dealer and said you wanted a Duramax in an Aveo, they'd tell you "no way", also.

The 21 tug is a nifty boat and built for a purpose. Here's an article about a couple of them that made the trip up the Inside Passage. Very capable small boats.

www.rangertugs.com/r/images/articles/Alaska_Article.pdf

Buy the right boat for the mission. These aren't speed boats, and the horsepower cost to get a bit more speed out of them isn't likely something that their market is interested in. It is what it is. There are other boats that size that will go faster. For a production boat, you pay your money, you make your choice. You want custom, you go to a marine architect/custom builder. Jeff is certainly a can-do kinda guy... within reason. When he was still at C-Dory, I wanted our boat to have a 25 foot folding mast, a cat-rig sail, a telescoping keel, and a kick-up rudder, so I could get 100 mpg. Yeah, I'm kidding. But if I decided to add that stuff to our boat, I'm guessing that besides voiding the warranty big time, it would also cream the resale value. And you can be darn sure the factory wouldn't have a thing to do with it.

Good luck finding or building the boat that best fits your needs.

Jim B.

[Larry H]

John,

It is also unlikely that an inboard boat manuf would sell a boat without an engine. Depending on what engine was installed, the boat could have poor handling or other problems. When the public hears of a 'bad' boat, they don't try to find out who caused the problem, they blame it on the factory.

For similar reasons, it is unlikely that a production builder would sell a boat without an interior. A poor interior could give the manuf a bad reputation that they did not cause.

If you want to experiment with a Ranger 21ec, buy one, pull the engine, and install what you want. If it doesn't work out, reinstall the original and sell the boat. Yanmar makes a slightly large engine, check their web site. It would require a larger motor box.

Personally, I would look for a boat more suited to my needs, or have a custom boat built.

[IT-SEA-BIT-C]

wild blue thanks for the info already read the article/about a million times,its agood one but doesn"t really say anything about the boats capabilites(mabey if u read between the lines ) .i know it is what it is .not tryn to make it a hot rod either,but if u listen to replys from owners and thoes with experience with it ,they all basically agree it would be great if it was alittle faster thats all/kinda puts it out of it s class with any other simillar boats .,on another note almost couldn"t believe i heard from u guys your 50 page book is something i look forward to reading every time i log on .keep up the good work sure helps dreaming of ur adventures while im freezing my u know what off working up here thanks again and hope u dont mind if i chime in once in a while got a kick out of hearing from u guys(spoiled brats).........bye ,john

[thataway]

Although this is not identical to the R 21, it is similar--a berth foreward, a small cabin and wheel house. This is the Grover 26. It is more like a combination of a semi dory and a downeast boat. There is the long cockpit with an engine box. The smallest engines I have seen on one is a 4 cyl 85 hp and the largerst was a 150 HP Volvo. A friend had one with a 120 Ford Lehman. It would cruise at 15 to 18, and top out in the low 20's. Very economical but quite wet in a sea. Theirs had a small galley and head in the cabin, as well as the two bunks.

Incidently one of these, outboard powered went across the Atlantic Ocean. This boat is in the South Street SeaPort Museum:
a 26' Grover Built boat that has an outboard motor. This particular boat claims fame in the Guinness Book of World records. The captain, Al Grover, and two sons took the craft on a 33 day journey across the Atlantic Ocean through 25 foot seas and 100 mile per hour winds. They were the first to ever make this journey on a small craft with an outboard motor!

http://tinyurl.com/2cq85m

[JamesTXSD]

Hi John,

When we were searching for the right boat for the mission, the Ranger 25 was in development. Great looking boat. The Blonde and I talked about it, but it didn't offer the potential cruising speed we were looking for (some of that "right boat for the mission" stuff I was talking about). We absolutely love our CD-25.

The 21 tug is a lot like the 22 C-Dory, in that it just looks RIGHT... truly the class act in its class. I'm not familiar with your intended cruising area, but if I were looking for a boat that could handle big open water (and fast), a small tug like the 21 with a big cockpit would not be my choice. We were sailors before finding our way to the C-Dory, and still have a catboat (another boat that just looks right)... it is a fun boat, but also has a large cockpit with a fairly low coaming... perfect for gunkholing in bays and lakes, but not the boat I'd take very far into open water.

If other owners are complaining about the lack of speed of the 21, then they bought a boat without understanding what it is all about... and are pretty quiet about that fact. I guess I don't recall much discussion about top speed of the boat, just how well it handles and how little fuel it uses. There was certainly some discussion of the R-25 not meeting its designed top speed and what Ranger is doing with engines. The 21 has been around longer, so it is a known commodity.

As far as me "minding" if you chime in - well, certainly not. I hope my post didn't come across that way. As a retired businessman, I can appreciate what boat builders are going through these days. I can't imagine a builder out there that wouldn't want to sell you a boat. But you have to understand that their reputation is on the line with every boat that goes out the door... to make a one-off untested boat would be setting themselves for more trouble than it's worth. That's why my suggestion to go to a marine architect and a custom builder.

There haven't been a lot of major developments in hull design in boats or airplanes in the last few decades. And in both vessels, it takes a LOT more horsepower to gain a little more speed. I don't doubt that there are times that tug owners (all tugs) would like to get a bit more speed out of their boats. But, they knew what they were buying (or should have known). Fast (even relatively) and economical seem to be mutually exclusive in the boat and flying worlds.

I truly hope you are able to find the right boat... or have the right boat built. We've been fortunate that we have found the right boats to meet our different needs over the years. I can only imagine the disappointment of making a major investment in a boat and then finding out it doesn't do what you want... and that's why we all do our homework.

I sure don't mean to imply that I know what Ranger or any boat manufacturer is willing to do... but I haven't heard the owner complaints that you have. The few 21 tug owners that I've corresponded with seem to really enjoy their boats, and it's easy to see why. If a manufacturer doesn't want to change production methods for one boat (understandable), you have two choices: buy the boat and live with it (knowing what the performance is) or throw a lot more money at it or a custom built.

Today, poking around on Wild Blue, we spent about 80% of our time at 6.5 knots or less and the remaining 20% running in the high teens. We knew before we bought the boat that it was capable at both those cruising speeds. Our catboat spends most of its time between 4-5 knots, with an occasional screaming reach of 6. Big fun!

Good luck on finding the right boat.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[Ron Cowan]

John, Jim has stated much better than I did went I talked about my change coming and needed a faster boat. As my mission was about pleasure cruising the tug as I stated is the prefect boat for me but as my mission becomes pleasure cruising and having frequent destinations to make the tug is a little slow (without adequate accominations) to hold out for the trip. Jim stated that the C-Dory was right for him and I stated that I probably would have been in better shape if I had bought the 22' C-Dory I went to buy. Without the mission ghange I would not even consider a change. As I said earlier make that list and search the manufactures.
Ron

[Ranger Jeff]

We did install a 40 HP Volvo for a customer last year. The additional weight of the motor vs the increased Hp resulted in very little gain in speed. We recently installed a 40 HP Yanmar in the R21EC. This engine weighs 110 pounds more than the 30 HP Yanmar. We were able to gain 1.5 MPH at the top end. Once again the additional weight, expense and fuel consumption did not make sense. The boat was designed around the 30 HP engine and works well for the customers that purchase it understanding the attributes of the boat and engine.

Jeff

[IT-SEA-BIT-C]

LES,K7MXE,LARRY,THATAWAY,RON,WILD-BLUE, and averyone thank you for your posts.i've cut and filled more holes in transoms ;inhailed plenty of fiberglass ,dust tried changing x demminsions,thought i could design better steps;(and tried) all to get a few MPH. hate to admit it but ,usually had just the oppsite affect and created some dangerous handeling at speed.,wont go to far in that direction as it will get to far off post topic .not try"n to compare apples to oranges(21ec to go fast deep v).all replys were appriceated and made sense , ithink i will be happy with 21 still gonna do experimenting at least with w/props but am sure ranger did thier homework.think i"d be just fine at 5;6 7 mph cruise,believe it or not one of my favorite cruises was following a string of sail boats off port jeff. long island tailing them about 5 mph.the whole way to block island in a stripped out race ready 26footer 2man stand-up bolsters helmets & lifelines off nothing but a snall cooler rafted up w/ them for 3 days and got to the point of where if u asked me what time it was ? ans. would be daytime or nighttime(u guy know what i mean)we all share a common bond .if anyone was wondering ? i got the name for my boat from tugs that run the hudson river i am usually the only pleasure boat out there in late fall (if no ice) or early spring usually cutting turns around buoys i make out of old plastic jugs i float on a string and wieght. they would make comments on ch 13 all the time about the nut zig zagging accross the channel usually to the sound off( another thing that goes bump in the night ).ha ha as i began responding to thier banter i slowly became friends w /most of them and they gave me the nickname itsy bitsy usually hailing me and asking me to give em a fly by at 90 or so and watch em wave at me .always got a kick out of it & still do .when i get my 21 i think itsea bitc-2- would be a great name.well brats guess we beat this topic to death ?thanks again to RANGER JEFF appriceate him taking time to respond . u guys are right there really is no perfect boat . but there is a perfect site right here.no rules -just be nice and it works .(to bad most other things in life can"t follow suite) happy to be part of the brats extended familly! look forward to talkin boats and good times at chesapeake bay ,i"ll be there thanks CHARLIE AND SALLY ..........bye brats ........john

[Captains Cat]

Wow John, if you do come, I'm gonna give you an ENTER key for your computer and a Paragraph Maker!