paper charts vs: navionic chips

thataway · Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject:

This same question comes up peroidically on other forums. Recently on THT--several delivary skippers said that they used paper charts--one didn't. Most professional mariners have paper charts aboard. There is a data base of countries and if they allow electronic charts (March 07). As I read the site, ECDIS is not satisfactory for US vessels, that paper charts are required. For foreign vessels whose country allows electronic charting as primary navigation, redundant plotter, with reduantant power supply, with an appropiate folio of appropiate paper charts are still required. I was discussing this with a friend who skippers a lage tug and he does depend on the electronic charting.

If anything, I find that the electronic navigation lulls folks into thinking how "easy" boating is--and they don't learn the basic skills. But that is just an opinion--and may be biased. What I have noticed is that at one point it seemed like many people were in boating for the "long haul"--mainly because of the learning curve of navigation. Along with the experience in navigation, comes experience which increases the seamanship skills. Again--it is only dependant on the motivation of the individual. I see more people buying expensive first boats, going on a voyage, like the loop, and then getting out of boating.

I don't think that anyone can say that it is not easier to boat, with the new navigation tools. That doesn't mean that people don't still make dumb mistakes.. On the other hand, what good are paper charts if you don't know how to use them?

Larry H · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:30 am Post subject:

Bob said,

dogon dory · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:11 am Post subject:

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:15 am Post subject:

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:31 am Post subject:

Now me, I got paper charts from the south Oregon coast to north Alaska that came with the boat. They are in a box in the house somewhere. A few of them are under the berth cushion in the boat, along with a couple cruising atlases. I also have two stand-alone chartplotters on board and a hand-held GPS that is good for coordinates and little else. About the only reason I carry the charts is so Dusty doesn't catch me without them when I am up that way.

Plus I got one of them Blackberry phones the other day that has a GPS and Google maps and Google Earth and all that nerd stuff. After reading Les' suggestion on another thread to skip the magnetic compass on a new boat I am thinking about taking the Ritchie out so I have room to put a stand for the phone. That damn compass can't play music anyway.

Larry H · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:34 am Post subject:

TyBoo · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:40 am Post subject:

dogon dory · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:06 am Post subject:

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

oldgrowth · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject:

thataway · Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject:

Dave,
Thanks to the link to "live maps" I had not seen that one. In many places it is better than Google. It is interesting that at my home the Google Earth is better resolution, but that the aerial photo is 6 months older (I can tell by the progress done on a new home across the street from us)--but on Live Maps, my Daughter's home in Culver City is much clearer than on Google Earth--and also considerably newer than the photo of my home or Google Earth (by remodeling done).

These on line maps/aerials are really interesting. Our county is on GIS and each lot is outlined by the GIS system, the house value, the dates of sale, size and even layout of the houses are available, aerial overlay, and in some cases street level photos of the house are on the country web site.

Dan--definately our thought processes are molded by our experiences. It may depend on where a person boat. as to the degree of skills needed, Today I spent 4 hours (beautiful 73 degree afternoon) on the ICW just watching boaters. One 25 foot boat ran aground, even though there was a GPS antenna on the cabin top. I saw one 18 foot center console come very close to swamping because the skipper didn't handle a wake properly--and on the other hand, the skipper of the 50 foot sport fisher, really didn't have any business running his boat at max wake speed in that perticular congested area. I called him on the radio, warning of an pile driving rig being pushed by a skiff, where his wake would have caused substantial damage, and possiable injury. Fortunately he slowed to minimum wake speed and thanked me. I don't think he recognized the danger. A person can get in a very serious problem between Puget Sound and the San Juans or Marina Del Ray and Catalina, under certain conditions. A lot of safety comes back to common sense, but experience does help.

I have a lot better navigation gear aboard my C Dories than I ever had on any the the boats I voyaged on. Today, I would have exactly the same navigational gear on a 60 foot boat as I would on a C Dory. If I could afford it, perhaps the screens would be bigger, but probably not.

doc · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:32 am Post subject:

Dan, Is it true in the event of losing all navigation equipment at one time that you will rely on the premise that moss will only grow on the north side of your boat to get you back to Fairbanks?

dogon dory · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:09 am Post subject:

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

damason · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:10 am Post subject:

You might check the US DOT USCG Navigation Rules (ColRegs 72) Rule # 5 Look-out "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means ...

I have seen many captains who ran aground because they were navigating by a TV screen. Someone has to be watching where they are going, other boats on the surface of the water, the height of bridges, and the color for depth of water. When you use a paper chart it requires more attention and work to the duties of navigation.

I will take Dave's challenge for navigating anywhere if we turn off the GPS signals vs my paper chart use. In the Gulf of Mexico we always say if you have no means of navigation just sail North and you will find land.

There are city boys who are looking at the tall buildings vs the country boys which are watching where they put their feet.

My boat's name is CHARITY, cause that is where all of my money goes.

dogon dory · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:

Sorry, Folks - Post Deleted By Author

patrick and linda · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:43 am Post subject:

my original question dealt with, purchasing one or the other, which system, paper of chip, would provide me with the best possible coverage.
i appreciate the responses, and as a result, have ordered the chip and was actually able to purchase this chip thru a c-brat'r, and at a savings, as well.
so, thanks to all.
have a greta day!
pat