NO GO Decision

[Levity]

Hi All,
C-Dorys are widely dispersed across many boating waters. The weather encountered by skippers in different regions must make for differnt "NO GO' decision criteria.
What weather conditions warrant a 'NO GO' decision in your primary boating waters?
Thanks,
Levity's Michael

[shausotter]

Hi,
Depoe Bay Oregon is considered one of the more difficult bars to cross in order to exit the harbor. The USCG has "rough bar" warning lights posted at the exit to the harbor. As long as the lights are not lit, there are no restrictions. If the lights are lit, then you must call to determine the size restrictions for crossing the bar. Some days the restrictions are for boats 16 feet and less. Other days the restriction is for boats 26 feet and less. When the criteria is 26 feet and less that keeps all but the larger boats in the harbor. This regulation pretty much controls boat owners operating out of Depoe Bay. If you cross the bar when restricted it is either a $1000 or $5000 fine depending on whether you were just ignorant or were crossing as a willful violation. Since the USCG operates out of Depoe Bay and is very active there, boat operators tend to follow the rules closely. I have noticed that when the restriction is for boats 26 feet and less a lot of the time the commercial charters will not go out as well.

As a new C-Dory owner I am looking forward to the comments you will hopefully receive from other owners on how they regulate themselves in rough waters.

Take care, Steve

[Captains Cat]

Michael, my nephew is a CG Chief PO and maintaned the boats out of Depoe bay and I can tell you, from his experience that it was a rough spot. He has several commendations and medals to prove it. He's also done several 360 degree rollovers, some for testing and a couple by accident. Not fun I'm sure. He's now on a buoy tender on the Mississippi!.

On the Chesapeake Bay where I boat and where you come often (sorry you missed our gathering this summer) I kind of play it by ear. You can't always depend on the forecast, although they try to do a good job. When I had a casualty on board last fall (broken ankle), the forecast was for moderating winds <10 knots, and <2ft of seas. It was actually 20 knots and 6-8 ft seas and when we got out there on a Norfolk-> Potomac River transit it was too late to turn back.

Now, I'll look at the forecast, venture out of the mouth of the creek (Cod Creek), head for the Bay 10 miles away and see how it is. If it's too tough, we go back to the mouth of the creek or across the river (10 miles) and into St Mary's river. You know where that is!

good thread, will be intersted in responses....

Charlie

[flagold]

Wave height 1/4 hull length or greater -- stay home -- not worth the pounding your equipment will take.

MM

[TyBoo]

Excellent topic, Michael. Thanks.

The decision to go fishing in the Columbia River just outside my home port is usually made by poking the nose of the boat out the harbor channel and looking it over. We can count on some swells and chop around the low tide, but it is easy to stay out of and will subside at slack water. If it is windy at home, I will check the Clatsop Spit wind report on the web. Clatsop Spit is a couple miles inside the south jetty at the end of the Columbia.

I have my own little set of rules to determine if a trip across the bar to the Pacific Ocean is a go. First, I check the NOAA web site before leaving the house (here's the local report, which is the same as comes over the VHF weather channel). I also check the web report for a weather buoy which is about 20 miles offshore in the Pacific from the CR bar. That gives me an idea of the ocean surface conditions. Another real accurate check is to stand outside the back of my house before daylight and listen to how loud the ocean is roaring. I am also pretty particular about the tides and times when considering a trip outside. If there is a big minus tide (-2' is a big low for us), and/or a big swing between high and low (10' is big for us), then every other condition has to be excellent for it to be a go. The best time to cross the CR bar is high slack. I like to see a very early low tide (like at daylight), and run out just after the incoming starts. Then we can catch our fish and be back in before high tide six hours or so later. I am also comfortable, sometimes, going out at high water and staying out until the ebb is over and the tide starts back in (if the timing is right, of course). Another factor here is that the wind will always pick up a little (or a lot) between 11:00 am and 1:00 pm and stay until evening. The wind is always from the north-northwest, as are the wind waves it makes, and if the swells on the bar are running east/west, it can make for some dicey conditions in a CD with its shallow draft. So, I like to pick days when the tides are favorable, and we always plan to return across the bar by noon, or 1:00 pm if there is not much breeze. Early in the ebb is usually OK if the tide change is small, but it has to be a real nice day for me to feel comfortable with it. We can also call the CG on VHF 16 for a bar report any time. Or call B~C on 68 if you can get him to answer, because he is usually already out there this time of year.

There are a couple simple rules of thumb we hear often around here. One is that if the swell height plus the wind wave height is equal to or greater than the time between the swells, it is best to stay home. Another is that if a similar sized boat disappears in the next trough over between swells, you shouldn't be in them.

When I venture across the CR bar, following my own rules, it is pretty flat and easy. But it can get snotty in a hurry. It is known as the most treacherous bar in the world for a reason. I'm mighty respectful of it. I had an uncle whose name is on the Mariners' Memorial Wall in Astoria, and that's more than enough instances of the Barber name on there. There are places on the Oregon coast that can have taller water at a bar crossing, but the CR bar can be 5 or more miles wide if it wants to, and nasty all the way. Hard to turn around in sometimes, too.

Now then, during sturgeon season when I come home from work and cross the Youngs Bay bridge at 4:00 in the afternoon, if there are no whitecaps in the river ship channel (or maybe just a few), it is fair game for a trip out to the sturgeon hole. For that, we anchor in the river just outside the harbor entrance, and no whitecaps means not enough wind to swing the boat around. You gotta be real still to snag them sturgeon.

[B~C]

what they said......water conditions are one thing, fun conditions are another....I've discovered it just isn't all that enjoyable trying to fish when the water is real bumpy, 1-2' wind waves with a 4' swell is about my fun limit...well...maybe a bigger swell if there's a long duration. Fog, I don't much care for but enjoy the added challenge...bought me some cheap yellow lens sunglasses, they really help define things better in the fog, I highly recomend them.

[Levity]

Hello Again,
Thanks to all who have given their NO GO criteria. Great replies, common sense is the foundation of boating. Sure hope more replies are coming!
Levity's Michael

[Rokjok777]

Great topic. I have a 22' Cruiser and a few personal opinions about this subject.

First, start small. Pick the flattest day you can think of, research the forecast (see above), then go out and compare that to what the forecast says. That will give you an idea what you're comfortable with, at least to begin with.

Next, play close attention to the forecast winds; and the period between both swells and wind waves. A 30' swell on 30 second periods would just put you to sleep. But a 9' swell on 7 second periods would feel pretty sporty. Add a wind wave of 3 or 4 feet, on a brief period like 4 seconds, and your eyes would be wide open.

Look for a trend in your favor. If the evening and following day call for smaller size than the current day, that might be a good indicator. Yesterday I ran 53 miles straight out of Half Moon Bay; the forecast was for wind waves 1-3 and swells 6-8 on 10 second periods; but the wind wave was declining in the next forecast to 1-2 and the swell was down to 5-7. Wind forecast same direction as the swell at 5-15 knots. We went and had a great day.

The flat C-Dory hull is excellent on gas mileage. But in a following sea, she has a tendency to slide sideways (broach to). Every hull is a compromise between carving the water (thus pushing lots of water aside, taking lots of gas and HP) and riding on top (great mileage, little or no carving). Slow down and let big following seas pass under you, if you start to surf down too fast, cut the throttle, then throttle back up and stay on the back of the swell if you can, without plunging down the face.

Check the tides. A tide running in the opposite direction of a swell or wind wave will stack up, get confused. Try the same wind and swell conditions at the same place on the slack tide and you'll be amazed at the difference.

Final opinion: My personal maximum right now is about like this: wind wave 3-5 on 5 second periods or more; swell 7-9 on 9 second periods or more. I'll probably encounter worse than that someday and I'm sure we'll be fine; but if I saw a forecast bigger than that I'd probably take a lake or river trip that day. Good Luck! And be brave (and prepared), like they say, the boat can take lots more than the people.

[TyBoo]

We frequently hear and say that the boat will take a lot more than the crew, and it is undoubtedly true, but we best not forget that the boat requires the crew to be in control. The other day on the CR bar, we had no problem dealing with the swells and chop, but if we had turned sideways on top of one of the swells, or surfed down and buried the bow in the next one, the crew might not have been able to stay on the boat.

Thanks for all the good information. Keep it up. After a while, Captain Dusty will hold forth on the subject, I hope.

[Levity]

Thanks to all who posted a reply. Learned a great deal from all the experienced C-Dory skippers. Those of you who must cross river bars to get outside face significant potential dangers; your risk assessment methods show the polish of constant use.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Levity's Michael