hard starting honda 90

[terraplane]

I'ld like to try again for some input..
Hoda 90...has always started by putting on choke at stearing station, sometimes slightly pulling out choke on engine in winter...
Now, when i hit the starter it roars to life and then dies...after about six of these false starts it finally starts..when it is out an running it purrs.

I do pump the ball, gas is good, and i have dumped in carburetor cleaner..
Any ideas?

[tsturm]

[Dora~Jean]

terraplane,

Every motor has a personality. On my Yami's, I pump up the primer bulbs till hard to ensure that I get all 4 vertically stacked carb float bowls filled with gas. Then I disengage the throttle-shift control to be throttle only, give it two to three 1/3 throttle pumps, then return to a point just providing a slight amount of throttle. Usually starts right up.

Give it a try. If that doesn't resolve it, maybe you do have a choke problem.

[Plan C]

I spent three frustrating years with a new hard starting Honda 75. I was unhappy from the day I got it and learned it had carbs instead of fuel injection. It started hard winter or summer, and only started easily when warm. I heard from many others of similar frustration.

I solved the problem this spring by getting a new Honda 90 WITH fuel injection. What a huge difference! It starts very easy, runs smooth, has more power, AND gets better fuel economy. I went from 4.5 mph to a max of 6.5 mpg. Honda got it right.

So, best I can say is use it up and replace it.

Dave

[dogon dory]

I had similar problems with a Honda 90. Not any more.

[Sea Wolf]

Does the BandWagon still have room?

Once you've owned a modern, fuel injected, computer controlled, large outboard, you'll never go back to carburetors!

Any carburetor can be temperamental, but four carburetors for four cylinders? Whazis? A 1950's Ferrari?

I campaigned right here for years to point out that I thought Honda was dragging its feet, until they added EFI this year!

Joe. (2005 Yamaha EFI 90)

[Almas Only]

Sally's Sister:

If you partially engage the manual choke, and then engage the choke at the helm, you're at full choke when starting. When you back off the lever at the helm, the electric actuator (solenoid) goes completely off, and the motor is choked at whatever level you set by the manual control. With just a little engagement of the manual, the choke range goes from "full", where the motor starts, to "little", where the motor stops. You might try giving the manual choke more engagement, so that the initial step down from "full" is less.

If that doesn't work, here's a more long-winded approach. We're dealing with a problem that is electrical, mechanical, or fuel related, or some combination of these. What can you eliminate, when the same startup procedure is being used, but with a different result than before?

Forget electrical, if for no other reason than none of us are capable of doing too much about it, other than confirming that there's a spark, which there obviously is, or the motor would either fail to start, or run much rougher than what we're experiencing. Also, I take very good care of the electrical components, replace plugs each year (they're always good, properly adjusted, consistent in appearance, and fairly clean when pulled), and keep the timing belt adjusted. But, I sometimes experience the same problem you describe.

Mechanical can also be eliminated, at least by me, because I am very particular about keeping everything in the fuel delivery and control system adjusted, carbs synced, etc. The idle fuel mixture has been richened slightly by a factory licensed mechanic to eliminate the typical hard start tendencies of this motor, and those tendencies always presented in the form of a "typical" hard cold start, but never a clear start, followed by stopping.

That, IMO, leaves the fuel system. Here, I've noticed a distinct change when running ethanol blended gas, to the point that I now try to avoid taking on fuel in both tanks from the same refueling location, so that if I find I've taken on bad fuel, I can either burn it when on a high speed run, and switch to the good tank when docking, or merely run on one tank, until I can get the bad fuel out at home, and burn it in the lawn tractor.

I have tried using middle range octane fuel, with very poor results. The motor might run well on the higher octane fuel, but it's almost impossible to start. One tank cured me of that experiment. You might check to see if you're getting mid-grade fuel, and if so, switch back to the lower octane level of "regular".

Although I always use a fuel stabilizer, I've found that some loads of fuel burn well (i.e., clean starts, which stick), others simply don't. What I now do, if there are any starting problems, is drain the gas out of the carb bowls, and try again. Believe it or not, this usually works, and the cure is not merely the result of the motor heating up while I'm draining the fuel. Draining before trying to start also helps. I don't recommend doing this each day, because it's a pain. But, if the boat has not been run in some time, it's worth the trouble. Just to make this easy, I've connected clear plastic drain tubes to carbs #1-3, and leave them in place. That way, I can catch the fuel drained from those carbs, and then go to the outside of the motor, and there catch the drainage from #4, which is already connected to a tube.

Let us know what you find out.

[terraplane]

Thanks to allfor the advice..I will now embark on a step by step try of all solutions. I'll let you know.
The motor is serviced every 100 hours..(now has just over 300) by a factory trained and very good mechanic...
I once owned a 1959 Austin Healey Sprite...this reminds me of that car at times.

Terraplane

[Plan C]

The good news about starting the hard-start BF75 and BF90, according to Les at EQ, is that you are not likely to flood when you are cranking with the choke on. That had always been a concern of mine.

Dave

[Moxieabs]

It doesn't take an engineer to know the all or nothing approach(solenoid) to a choke is not the way to keep the engine running when cold started. Mine (Honda 90) has always started but always been difficult to keep it running until 3 or 4 starts gets it warm enough to continue running. Poor choke control design, in my opinion. I've owned lawnmowers with better choke/fast idle controls than the Honda.

[Sea Wolf]

[dogon dory]

[Dora~Jean]

My Yamaha 80's (same as the newer 75's) with carbs has started flawlessly for 5 years now. It has no choke, rather an enrichment circuit, seems to work great. Maybe Honda should've 'borrowed' that idea?

Mute point now with EFI...and...I don't want to start a Honda vs Yami war, paaaaleeese, both are fine engines, each with their own pluses and minuses.

[C-batical]

For those who are interested, I have 2004 Honda, 40 hp, engines on my boat. They are carbureted, no choke, and use an enrichment system for cold starting. I have had trouble cold starting these engines since new and have had them adjusted by the dealer several times under warranty to no avail. I recently was contacted by my dealer and he advised me that Honda has redesigned the system, changing the top plate of #1 carb and the fuel valve to allow more gas to flow into #1 cylinder. Honda has been silent on the modification but apparently will cover them under warranty, if you complain. Over the years I have learned to compensated for this poor design by compressing the fuel bulb between my hands as hard as I could and pumping the throttle quickly several times. I found that this was the only way to get gas into a cold engine. Warm, these engines start every time.

Best regards

[CAVU]

I have 2002 40HP Hondas and know what Moxiecabs is talking about. The choke lever at the throttle is spring loaded to off so when cold starting you have to keep playing with it up and down to keep the engine running. The other option is set the choke manually on the engine. Then you have to play with the throttle to keep the RPM from going to the redline on a cold engine. Definitely not a good system.