Red Tide

[marvin4239]

We have been experiencing what they are describing as a "Red Tide" here in NE Florida at Amelia Island. There are literally thousands of dead fish washing up on shore. I saw Red Bass, trout, flounder, tarpon, mullet and many other species washed ashore. Even worse it's making the beach goers ill with resperatory problems and the health department is warning people to stay away. Suspicously a dredging company has been pumping spoil from the bottom of the Kings Bay Nuclear submarine base in a dreging project to replinish the shore line in the same area that is effected. I've been working on my boat lift for the last week to add new cables and slings to accomidate my new 22. I've had the boat home and in the yard for 10 days now and still haven't got it wet. I'm about a mile from the area being affected and yesterday I noticed dead fish washing up in my area on the ICW. I planned to do my maiden voyage tommorrow but was reluctant until I realized the boats on a trailer I'll just go somewhere else! There was a post sometime back about some C-Brats interested in cruising the St Johns River. This area isn't affected and I doubt will be. Hopefully this ordeal will be short lived. It's coming at the peak of our fishing season and hopefully will be short lived.

[El and Bill]

Marvin -

Sorry to hear about the red tide problem, just when you want to launch and at the start of the fishing season. Red tides can sure be serious on the wildlife and humans -- especially watch out for shellfish, they can concentrate the toxins.

However, you are fortunate to have the St. Johns River out your back door -- red tides are a salt water phenomenon -- so trailer down to the fresh water portion of the St. Johns and have a great cruise -- look for the manatees -- you undoubtedly know all this already, but the St Johns is a real gem!!

http://www.geocities.com/bill_fiero/stjohns.htm

[rogerbum]

Marvin,

As I'm sure you know, red tides are essentially algae blooms and they appear to be a natural phenomenon - especially in Fla in the winter seasons. However, human activity that releases additional nutrients into the water can contribute to/cause such algae blooms. Hence, it is possible that the dredging activities you describe could be related to the bloom if their work has stirred up the bottom enough to release fresh nutrients into the nearby water. However, it's also possible that the two are unrelated.

Regardless - have fun on the river.

[BrentB]

Red tide is uncommon in your area. What does FL NDR say?
I know I am lazy.

[Byrdman]

Sounds like a great St. Johns cruise to me....then... somewhere in the 14-22Oct time frame....trailer on over to the west side and join some of us C-Brats in the Panama City-East Point/Apalachicola Bay area at the Gulf Coast Gathering. See the "Event Signups" link and join us!!

Byrdman

[marvin4239]

I'm sorry I won't be able to make the Gulf Coast gathering my youngest daughter is getting married on the 20th. I do some volunteer work which involves publishing a monthly newsletter and I'm committed with that from the 14th to the 17th also. As far as going down the St Johns thats my plan. I just bought a chart of the Central Section and hopefully will trailer down and do some cruising for a few days. I just got back from the Doctor. I developed a really weird rash on my forearm I feel certain its related to the Red Tide. Doc gave me a shot and some anti biotics. Before they made the Red Tide deal public I was in the water quite a bit working on my boat lift so I probably picked up a bug. Some people are reporting getting ill within 30 minutes of simply walking on the beach. The latest news on it is that it's migrating south toward St Augustine. I haven't heard a report from the DNR as of yet. It's really sad to see all the dead fish. It may be my imagination but it seems the sea birds are really scarce. Apparently due to the magnitude of this thing the dredging at Kings Bay probably didn't play much of a part but it certainly didn't help.

[JimD]

http://www.whoi.edu/redtide/whathabs/whathabs.html



Usually you have to eat something...never heard of epidermal or respiratory effects. Dr Bob where are you?

[marvin4239]

I don't really know much about the effects of Red Tide but the news is warning people with resperatory disease's to stay away from the beach. This caught my attention because I have a genetic form of emphysema. Recently I've been on a pretty heavy dose of predisone for colitus which the doctors tell me lowers your immune system so in reality I guess it could have been anything that caused the rash. Been working with CCA treated lumber also but I've worked with it a lot and never had any ill effects. Thanks for the link.

[Pat Anderson]

This is a completely different "red tide" than we experience here on the Upper Left Coast...here it is PSP - paralytic shellfish poisoning. You have to eat contaminated clams, oysters or mussels to have any ill effects here, but damn, they can be fatal "ill effects" in severe cases, so we don 't fool around when there are red tide warnings.

[marvin4239]

Here's a link to some information on the Red Tide http://research.myfwc.com/features/view_article.asp?id=9670 This is from a group that monitors water conditions throughout Florida on a daily basis. I think sometimes Red Tide is used as a generic term. Shellfish are certainly in danger. It's a little known fact that Florida produces something like 90% of the clams consumed in the US in commercial beds in the Indian River. This year has been and especially good year for the local blue crab fishermen also. Commercial scallop fisheries here pretty much disappeared some years ago and the local fishermen blamed it on cruise ships dumping their holding tanks off shore. As far as the Saint Johns it much cleaner today than it was 40 years ago. Enviromentalist have done and excellent job in cleaning it up and protecting it from industry run off.

[Pat Anderson]

The ironic thing is that "red tide" here does NOT harm the clams, oysters or mussels at all, does not involve dead fish, crabs, etc. - the shellfish simply build up toxins from algae that are harmful to humans but not themselves. This just sounds like a completely different deal than what you have in Florida...Here is a link to our "red tide" fact sheet.

[JamesTXSD]

Here is a piece that was in the local paper last year, when red tide was affecting the Padre Island Seashore portion of the Texas Gulf Coast...

<<According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, scientists know little about how breathing the air near red tides or swimming in red tides may affect human health. People who are near the water during red tide may experience irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, as well as coughing, wheezing, and shortness of breath. People with existing respiratory illness, such as asthma, may experience these symptoms more severely.>>

It's my understanding that the large fish kills come from the lack of oxygen in the water in the area of the red tide. We were gone during this last episode, but were told by neighbors that, besides the awful smell, the air quality was so bad that many people left the area.

[AstoriaDave]

Right you are, Pat! I got curious how the FL red tide differs from the kind we get in the Pacific Northwest. Quite a bit, actually.

Here is the Wikipedia comparison of the four major kinds of poisonings from organisms similar to the FL and the PNW "red tides": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellfish_poisoning

In the PNW, we worry about PSP; in FL, it is NSP, caused by this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karenia_brevis

NSP is nasty: http://www.whoi.edu/redtide/illness/nsp.html And, aerosolized material does seem to cause respiratory problems in humans.

[JimD]

I learn more on this site.......

[marvin4239]

For those interested heres some information on the Red Tide in FLorida from and agency that tracks it. I just came back from a trip down the Saint Johns and saw dead fish floating twenty miles from the Ocean and the Saint Johns flows toward the ocean. We've been having a strong north east wind that probably blew them up river.

EAST COAST
Karenia brevis, the Florida red tide organism, has been detected alongshore of Nassau, Duval and St. Johns counties in northeast Florida with concentrations ranging from background to high. Multiple reports of fish kills and respiratory irritation have been received from alongshore areas of Nassau and Duval counties. While red tide does not commonly occur in northeast Florida coastal waters, transport of K. brevis blooms from southwest Florida to Florida’s Atlantic coast has been previously documented. Respiratory irritation remains possible in areas with above background populations of K. brevis and fish kills are possible at concentrations greater than LOWb.

NORTHWEST FLORIDA
Water samples collected this week from northwest Florida detected medium concentrations of Karenia brevis, the Florida red tide organism 2 to 19 miles west of the mouth of St. Andrews Bay (Bay County). K. brevis was also detected at background to very low concentrations in St. Joseph Bay (Gulf County). Reports of fish kills, discolored water and respiratory irritation have been received from the Panama City area and portions of Walton County. Respiratory irritation remains possible in areas with above background concentrations of K. brevis and fish kills are possible at concentrations above LOWb.

SOUTHWEST FLORIDA
Water samples collected this week detected Karenia brevis, the Florida red tide organism, at very low concentrations at southern Sanibel Island (Lee County) and at background concentrations near Clam Pass (Collier County). Background concentrations of K. brevis were also found in an offshore sample collected 1.5 miles south of Sanibel Island. All other samples collected between Pinellas and Collier counties contained no K. brevis. No samples were received this week from the Florida Keys. A bloom of the cyanobacteria Trichodesmium has been identified west of Pinellas County and may cause discoloration of offshore waters in the area.

The FWRI Red Tide Status Line is now available to callers to hear a recording detailing red tide conditions throughout the state. FWRI updates the recording each Friday by 5 p.m. after sampling efforts for the week have been completed and analyzed. Red Tide Status Line: (866) 300-9399 (toll-free inside Florida only); (727) 552-2448 (outside Florida).

Visit Florida Red Tide Current Status and select the statewide summary or a region of interest for more information and sampling details.

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