Bilge pump problems

Spike · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: Bilge pump problems

Maybe someone out there can help me with a problem with my bilge pump. The danged thing will not shut off. It runs in auto or manual. I even removed the magnitic float switch and it still ran in auto mode. I had to take the fuse out to get it to shut off. And is the bilge pump a warrenty item? I would just bite the bullet and replace it myself, but the way it is wired in is just alittle beyond my skills. The boat only has 40 hrs on it. Thanks to any and all.
Kathy and Chuck
Bootleg Hooch

thataway · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject:

Yes, it should be a warantee item. I suspect that it is wired wrong or the switch on the dash has failed. This may be a connector which is miss wired, or shorted. The wiring is fairly easy. I do recommend that every boat owner have a digital volt meter; that way you can check circuits. Even a cheap ($20 or so) one will be fine.

The second item I suggest is that you have a good rachet crimping tool. Ancor makes a modestly priced one.

The bilge pump is wired so that the power goes to the pump thru the manual switch, or thru the float switch. Use the voltmeter to check the wiring.
Put the black lead of the volt meter on a ground (black or yellow wire)--the red wire should be the positative lead. IT depends on the brand, and I dont' remember what the convention is on the one on the C Dory, but often the bilge pump positative lead is brown for the float switch and brown with black stripe for the manual switch, or it may be blue. Some have red and brown. Many boats will have a manual and auto switch for the pump, but most C Dories wire the float switch directly to the pump.

The best connectors--essential for bilge pumps--are those which have both shrink tubing and adhesive in the lining, so that when you heat the crimped fitting it will seal the ends and no water intrude. You can also buy adhesive lined shrink tubing and put this over the crimp.

I like to have an assortment of crimp fittings, heat shrink tubing, electical ties, as well as hose clamps, some extra hoses, and an assortment of screws, nuts and bolts in a small tackle box aboard.

starcrafttom · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject:

I remember a past post about this problem and the pump was wired wrong. just try reversing the wires first and see what happens.

Spike · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice Bob and Tom. I tried them but the pump would not shut off. But the good news is I found where the pump was spliced in to the wiring. Completley overlooked it yesterday so it was a easy replacement,expensive but easy. Again thank you both.
Chuck
Bootleg Hooch

thataway · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject:

Call the factory, they will send you a new pump. Did you trace out the wiring to the switch? Pull the wiring at the switch? If you pull the wiring at the switch, and it still runs, it is just wired wrong. I suspect that the pump is fine, since it is running.

mikeporterinmd · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject:

Anyone know what the largest size pump is that will fit into the little
galley pump area on a CD-22?

My "automatic" pump failed, so I think I'm just
going to switch to a Rule 1500 or 2000 and Superswitch, if it fits.

Mike

Sea Wolf · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject:

Sea Wolf · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:01 am Post subject:

More on this classic water accumulation problem:

Before the factory added this forward bilge well and pump, several folks built similar wells just inside the bulkhead wall, square in the center of the doorway. These work well, but the well and it's box and the cover were in the doorway and had to be stepped over, therefore making transit a bit akward.

For a really unique solution to this problem, we ought to get Jim Gibson of Pounder to show us some photos of his set-up. There were some great photos of it on the old C-Dogs website, but they're gone now, of course.

Jim mounted a diaphram pump about half way up the side of the hull under the galley. A diaphram pump will lift water from below the pump because of it's diaphram design and check valves, unlike the centrifugal pumps we usually use, which must be immersed in water up to the level of the impeller assembly. As such, the diaphram pump will suck* water up several feet, then pump it out well above the pump.

The only drawback is the cost, which starts at about $175 or more.

Jim linked the pump with a pick-up hose and a small weighted collector foot that was positioned in the center of the boat just outside the door and free of foot traffic interference.

The output was simply plumbed over the side via a through hull.

Today, the use of floorboards largely solves/hides this problem as they raise the floor level above any accumulated water.

Again, there were many C-Dory owners who built their own floorboards prior to the factory adopdting the idea.

Looks like we have an idea factory here! Idea

Joe.

* I know, there's really no such thing as suction, and the higher presssure of the air outside pushes the water into the tube where the pump has lowered the pressure, but suction is an easier concept that doesn't have to be explained, etc. (Darned science teacher background!)

Spike · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject:

Thataway
I traced the wires as best as I could short of tearing to far into the boat. And not having a wiring diaogram. But why would the pump work fine till now. In fact one of the first things I did after taking delivery in October was check the pump out with a garden hose. It worked just as advertised in auto and manual mode. I never owned a boat without scuppers, so I figured I had better check. I did not think to call Rule about a replacement. I think I will try even though I replaced pumps yesterday. Everything works fine again. Once again Thank You for your help.

Chuck
Bootleg Hooch

journey on · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject:

The aft bilge pump in Journey On will not work in auto mode.

I found that there are three wires to the pump. One is return, one is power directly to the pump motor, and is controlled by the panel switch. The third is power directly from the battery (fused) to the float switch, which is the auto mode.

This is the second "new" Rule bilge pump that I've had fail. I think I'll try another brand.

Boris

thataway · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject:

We carry a "extra" pump. It is a diaphragm pump by Par, which I got form a consignment store for about $30. I had to rebuild it, with new valves, but as long as the motor works, and no cracks in the bodies these old pumps can be easily rebuilt. We have about 5 feet of suction hose, and 8 feet or discharge hose. It works as a water vacuum. It will pick up water which is 1/4" deep, and basically vacuum up the floor or where water is standing. This same pump, can be used as a washdown pump or a shower pump with the pick up in lake or ocean water. This is not high capacity--we have a Rule 3700 pump for large volume "dewatering"--this has 1 1/2" discharge hose. Both of these pumps have 3/8" ring fitting on the 10 foot wire, so that they can be attatched to any near by battery. This allows mobility so that a pump can be used where it is really needed--either on your or someone elses boats.

rogerbum · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject:

I also carry an extra bilge pump - the 500 gal/hour one that I replaced with two 1100 gph pumps. I have mine on about 25' of cable that terminateswith a 12V cigarette lighter plug (it only draws about 2.5A). I have about 8' of hose and a 12V outlet in the cockpit. I've also used it for "vacuuming" operations. One time it did come in handy when another boat at Neah Bay was taking on water in the marina. I could pull up and help pump him out until he was able to get the boat out of the water. You never know when such things will come in handy.

mikeporterinmd · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject:

Hmmm...wonder if I could notch the floor boards to pass a pickup hose
from the center of the boat and run it through the small galley well and
up to a diaphram pump.

Joe: There is no pump at the sterm of my boat. So, I have two needs:
dewatering and fairly heavy water removal. But, the second may
not really be that big of an issue. I mean, there is something 'wrong' feeling
with not having a large pump on a boat, but where exactly would this
water come from on a CD-22 with no throughhulls? If I did manage to
somehow hole the boat, most likely a 1500gph pump will not help for
long. If I took a single wave over the stern, I have a good quality manual
pump that will remove large amounts of water. If I continue to take
waves over the stern, it is not likely any electric pump will keep up....
Dunno...haven't really decided yet.

First step is to see what fits, I guess.

Cost on the diaphram pump is a minor issue. Something that keeps the
hull dry is worth a lot to me. And I do have factory floorboards. And I
still have factory screw holes all over the place, too Sad

Wonder what
he used to trigger the pump? A float switch does need a lot of water to
start. That is why I like those automatic pumps, but they do not seem
to last all that long. This is the second in this boat, and I've replaced
them before in other boats.

Thanks,

Mike